Ethical Considerations (for me) for soapmaking

[Joy Wolff]

Sharing this, because I have struggled over this for the last 9 months of soap making: Many of you will disagree with me: but I need to post this, as I've thought over it, long and hard:

Let me share my background. I grew up in Kansas. High agriculture. Where the used to be fertile land is now polluted by nitrates and ammonia from massive cattle lots. All water must now be trucked in for personal use unless it's city water (which is highly treated). The highly genetically modified grains (GMO) have created super-weeds that are no longer easily killed by anything. (like anti-biotic resistance: except with weeds).

I also now live in Florida, near a massive, huge lake that has been polluted in years past by agriculture: pesticides and herbicides...agriculture no longer there: but the 10-mile-wide lake is still highly polluted: despite continued work by state and county: to restore it. It used to be a huge bass fishing lake: no more! in Florida: where we live above our future drinking water (an aquifer). The use of Round-up and such weed killers is polluting our future water supply for our children and future generations. the half-life of round-up is 50 years (meaning it takes 50 years for round-up to organically go away...thus, at least 100 years for all to go away...more than a lifetime! (I am an organic gardener and have an organic lawn, and do not use synthetic chemicals on anything in my house or lawn: including cleaning supplies. )

Plus, palm oils, have deforested a large part of the rainforest in Asia and other tropical countries, causing loss of income for Indigenous populations, and causing massive erosion and loss of valuable "dirt" for the countries. Not counting loss of wild animals, pollinators, and disrupting the eco-system.

I can make cheap/inexpensive oils...and have for at least 6 of the 9 months.... But today, I did a cost comparison of the best places for me to buy my soap oils, and I found that, when comparing. The cost per ounce is pennies between non-gmo oils (yes, they are organic: but that is not my true concern), and cheaper "regular" oils. In looking at my sources of purchase, and the cost comparison of the oils that I use and like, and considering I plan to be making soap now for years…and what I can, in conscience, use on my body, give to my family, and sell to my mainly vegan customers—has to be a tiny bit more expensive: because of the ethical considerations. Yes, I LOVE cheap. And the choice is gut-wrenching not to go with the cheapest option; but I cannot, in conscience, do so.

I made my decision today, in doing the cost comparison. I must go with my ethical belief system, and not just go for the cheapest option. I am sharing because I am sure I am NOT the only one with this conundrum.

For those of you who disagree with me, please do not crucify me. I am merely posting my thought process, for those who struggle with this, like I do. Thank you!

 

[AliOop]

Well said! I feel similarly about trying to use local ingredients, and to use products that would other be tossed out. By the time an animal’s fat is available to me, the animal is already dead. Using their fat honors that animal’s life and death, keeps waste out of landfills - and makes great soap!

I realize that others may feel differently and not want to use animal fats at all. I do respect that position and don’t begrudge anyone the right to follow their conscience regarding ingredients.

PS - I use vinegar for weed control, and just learned that some folks feel that is as bad as roundup bc it supposedly kills microbes in the soil. I’m not sure that’s correct, as I’ve not experienced any reduction in garden productivity as a result of careful and limited vinegar application.

 

[paradisi]

Not using cheap ingredients isn't an ethical consideration unless I misunderstand you.

It's a business one; the person targeting people on a tight budget will probably chose different inputs than one aiming for a wealthy clientele. And any business will naturally try to find the best prices on what they do use.

Neither set of ingredients is unethical.

(I'm a vegetarian so I don't use tallow-- not because beef raising is the leading cause of rainforest destruction nowdays, nor because I think soapers who use tallow are unethical--I don't--it's just my personal choice, and theirs.)

I might laugh at soap with diamond extract or gold leaf, but if that's your niche, knock yourself out, is my way of thinking.

Soap would be terribly boring if everyone made the same thing.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Sharing this, because I have struggled over this for the last 9 months of soap making: Many of you will disagree with me: but I need to post this, as I've thought over it, long and hard:

I made my decision today, in doing the cost comparison. I must go with my ethical belief system, and not just go for the cheapest option. I am sharing because I am sure I am NOT the only one with this conundrum.

I appreciate your sharing and also your conviction. Other than the canola oil plant, are other plants used for oils in soap making, genetically modified?
I have migrated from palm for soap making, but still use a small amount in my body balm as I haven't found the same feel with other oils.
Like @AliOop I do use lard, since it is mainly a byproduct of the pork industry. In other words, I don't know of anyone raising hogs specifically for lard.
Also, I'm a big believer in protecting our pollinators, so try to go organic wherever I can find it.

 

[MelissaG]

Consider this... the animals are going to die whether you use anything from them or not. Humans eat animals, especially pigs, cows, chickens, and turkey (in the US and Canada anyway). Would you rather contribute to the landfills by just throwing a bunch of the animals carcass away or would you use whats available? It's better to use the fats, and bones than throw them out.

And yes, I'll be honest, I'm a butchers daughter so it doesn't bother me. I personally don't have the heart to kill them but I grew up around places like a meat and sausage store right down to the carcasses hung from the roof to allow the blood to drain into big vats below them.

You will never get people to stop eating animals. But you can help make sure their remains don't go into a landfill.

 

[Relle]

We use to have a butcher shop and any fat, bones are collected here and get rendered for soap, by large manufacturers, nothing goes to waste, nothing goes to landfill. We were paid by the kg, not much though, for them to pick it up.

 

[MelissaG]

We use to have a butcher shop and any fat, bones are collected here and get rendered for soap, by large manufacturers, nothing goes to waste, nothing goes to landfill. We were paid by the kg, not much though, for them to pick it up.

That's awesome. Wish we had one near me. My dad retired years ago and I live about 1900 miles away. I tried to find a place in my area that would supply it but they refused to sell it to me. Not sure why. I'm betting they have special permits they need to get to sell it so aren't willing.

 

[paradisi]

Consider this... the animals are going to die whether you use anything from them or not. Humans eat animals, especially pigs, cows, chickens, and turkey (in the US and Canada anyway). Would you rather contribute to the landfills by just throwing a bunch of the animals carcass away or would you use whats available? It's better to use the fats, and bones than throw them out.

And yes, I'll be honest, I'm a butchers daughter so it doesn't bother me. I personally don't have the heart to kill them but I grew up around places like a meat and sausage store right down to the carcasses hung from the roof to allow the blood to drain into big vats below them.

You will never get people to stop eating animals. But you can help make sure their remains don't go into a landfill.

If the "you'll never get people to stop eating meat" is pointed at me, I don't care if people eat meat. Or use animal fats in their soap. I'd never use their soap, but don't care if others do.

That's the cool thing about soap, there's room for everyone to do as they like.

 

[lenarenee]

I'm sorry this caused such dilemma for you.

I highly doubt you'll find anyone, whether they would have made the same decision or not, who will criticize you for it. We all have reasons we make the
recipes we do and I can't recall anyone on this forum ever having the attitude that "my soap is better than yours because_____."
Any soaper who's had enough time to experiment and catch the soaping addiction, quickly learns there are thousands of recipe variations - and just as many reasons to make them. Perhaps that's why no one gets wrapped up in the "right" recipe/oils. The end product is a testament to the personality of the soaper....so enjoy your results!

 

[MelissaG]

If the "you'll never get people to stop eating meat" is pointed at me, I don't care if people eat meat. Or use animal fats in their soap. I'd never use their soap, but don't care if others do.

That's the cool thing about soap, there's room for everyone to do as they like.

No, sorry if it came off that way, it was just a general statement.

 

[akseattle]

@Joy Wolff, soapmaking is a hobby for me, I don’t sell. In my everyday life, I try to reduce my ecological footprint by recycling, composting, repairing, repurposing, buying energy efficient appliances, using public transportation when possible, taking my own bag to the store, and in many other small ways.

I don’t have the bandwidth to sort through all environmental considerations for all ingredients when making soap. I haven’t used palm oil for awhile but I have it and I will eventually use it (I believe it is RSPO). I use tallow and lard in my soap because I think it has properties I want in a bar, and I share the belief that others have expressed that it is simply using a part of an already dead animal that could otherwise be treated as waste.

I don’t think anyone will judge you for deciding to use slightly more pricey ingredients that are more aligned with your values and beliefs. As @paradisi said, customers who share your values will gravitate to your product. I believe a customer will pay more for a soap with higher cost ingredients if it fits their budget and if they think you are asking a fair price.

I am sometimes concerned that it is those of us who DON’T avoid all potentially offensive (politically, environmentally, etc.) ingredients that will be judged. But, in the end, I can only do what makes sense for me. If I find myself tossing and turning over a soap dilemma, I’ll probably do what you did. I’ll post on this forum and ask for feedback. What a great resource this forum is!!!

 

[Ephemerella]

@Joy Wolff, it's wonderfully refreshing that you took the time to share your thoughts. I, too, have supported the fight for clean, publically accessible water in my neck of the woods for years.

I also share many of your concerns and feelings on ingredients, and I chose mine very carefully. Much thought (and expense) has gone into my packaging and creation method, too, to minimize single-use plastics and have fully compostable packaging.

I do not use animal products in my products aside from family-farmed beeswax. Not because I'm vegan — I'm not. I'm actually an avid hunter. I don't use animal products because I can't verify how the animals that wound up in that tub of lard were treated when they were alive. I also don't know about the farming practices implemented to raise the animals. I can't feel good about using their remains — despite the clear benefits- unless I can verify how the animals intended for my products are raised and treated. I'm terribly jealous of those of you who have access to farmers and animal products that you know and trust.

I could make my soap much cheaper, with more cost-effective ingredients, but it would mean compromising on things that matter to me. So I don't, and I price my product accordingly. It's my choice because it's my soap. And it's my customer's choice whether that matters to them.

 

[ewhitake]

I don't sell, just make soap cuz it's fun. But I have a question. I understand when you sell, you're trying to make a profit. The cost of ingredients, your profit and what the customer is willing to pay are all legitimate worries. But people buy handcrafted soap because it is handcrafted. If they wanted cheap, wouldn't they have gone to Walmart?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the word cheap is being used here? Or maybe I don't get it cuz I don't sell

 

[AliOop]

Perhaps @Ephemerella meant "cost-effective" - one of my retired-builder husband's favorite terms to denote something that isn't as expensive, but still has good quality. Then again, perhaps she meant "cheap" in the sense of lesser quality. Either way is ok with me.

There are folks who want handcrafted soap but don't want to pay big prices for it. Perhaps this is due to a combination of a limited budget but sensitive skin that needs to avoid ingredients found in most commercial soaps. Or perhaps they want to be "cool" by having handcrafted soap in their home, but only care about price and not ingredients. Dunno... seems like there is a buyer for every type of soap and maker out there.

 

[ewhitake]

Perhaps @Ephemerella meant "cost-effective" - one of my retired-builder husband's favorite terms to denote something that isn't as expensive, but still has good quality. Then again, perhaps she meant "cheap" in the sense of lesser quality. Either way is ok with me.

There are folks who want handcrafted soap but don't want to pay big prices for it. Perhaps this is due to a combination of a limited budget but sensitive skin that needs to avoid ingredients found in most commercial soaps. Or perhaps they want to be "cool" by having handcrafted soap in their home, but only care about price and not ingredients. Dunno... seems like there is a buyer for every type of soap and maker out there.

Semantics, budgets and what works for you and your customers I guess.

 

[akseattle]

The end product is a testament to the personality of the soaper....so enjoy your results!

@lenarenee - so absolutely true!

 

[Ephemerella]

Perhaps @Ephemerella meant "cost-effective" - one of my retired-builder husband's favorite terms to denote something that isn't as expensive, but still has good quality.

Thanks! thats exactly what I meant.

But people buy handcrafted soap because it is handcrafted. If they wanted cheap, wouldn't they have gone to Walmart?

Some people don't see the value in home made.... since a bar of soap costs $2 at Walmart, they think the same thing with a pretty design "should" cost $4 if its hand made. It doesn't come in a shiny box after all

Unfortunately, I see a lot of soapers undercut themselves too. They soap as a hobby, or a way to use up a raw material they have access to, and are happy to sell their product for just over what it costs them to make. But, when an ingredient has a big price increase, they either have to raise their prices or take a loss, or stop. A lot of budget-priced soapers are afraid to raise their prices.

I believe, personally, pricing your product appropriately should not only account for your ingredients (including things we don't think about, tape, ink, paper, paper towels, etc.), but also your time *as a livable wage* for your area (not $2 an hour), as well as a healthy enough profit to be able to secure needed occasional goods (like replacing a tent), AND have enough profit left over to withstand ingredient price fluctuations, or any emergency (like rush shipping for a critical ingredient, etc). You might not make much profit when a crisis arises — but you're not taking a direct hit either, AND you're not having to noodle around with your pricing to your customers — customers do not care that the price of cocoa butter has increased 5x in the last 6 months, nor should they have to care.

To me this is not only valuing the product you create, but valuing yourself as an artisan.

I'm not going to buy a yacht, or summer in the Maldives from my soap empire (though maybe if I did I could convince Ryan Reynolds to join me ), but I've also been working really hard to make sure this is a sustainable business that can grow if I want it to, or stay put, and not be a burden when the soap batter hits the fan.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Maybe make a list of oils on a continuum from 'Oils you would use' - to 'Oils you would definitely not use' in terms of your beliefs/ethical requirements. Then look at all those on the 'would use' side of the continuum and see if you have a sufficient fatty acid profile in there to make decent soap. Choose the cheapest of those items to make your soap.

EG: stearic/palmitic fatty acids are - butters, lard, tallow, palm, soy wax...etc. Which of those are ones you would use? Then which of the ones you would use is the cheapest? And so on....

Then of course your have refined/unrefined/organic/extra virgin/solvent extracted/fair trade options to consider.

Say for example that Shea butter is your cheapest from the above list of stearic/palmitic contributors, price up a fair trade, versus refined, versus unrefined, etc until you find a happy medium.

Do this for all your fats until you get the winners.

Good luck