Effect fragrances have...

[cheshiresoapco]

So I've made 2 batches of soap using the coconut fragrance and pineapple fragrance from essential depot... Both have been hard to unmold because they are so soft! My 2nd batch has been curing for almost a week now and it's still bendy and soft, almost play dough-y ... The fragrance is the only change in recipe.... What should I do????

 

[lionprincess00]

We need recipe and technique used to help troubleshoot

 

[shunt2011]

Yes, please post your recipe and how you soaped (temp, SF, etc.). Then we can try to help you trouble shoot.

 

[cheshiresoapco]

My recipe is:
11 oz Palm
11 oz coconut
8 oz safflower
8 oz sunflower
8 oz Shea butter
4 oz olive
3 oz castor
20.1 oz water
7.3 oz lye
1.66 oz fragrance which I did 1.1 oz coconut and .5 pineapple

It's starting to get hard but still has an almost play dough feel and still bendy ... I want to make soap in the worst way but don't want to ruin anymore batches!

 

[cheshiresoapco]

Oh and my temps were 125 for the oils I believe and about 100 for the lye. I didn't think to write down the temps so that's going off memory

 

[IrishLass]

Regarding the sunflower and safflower- did you use the regular kind or the high oleic (HO) kind? I ask because if you used the regular kind, that would kick the linoleic acid content of your soap up to 26%, which is pretty high for linoleic (lots of linoleic makes for a softer soap).

I see that you used a full-water amount. That's another factor that can contribute to a soap being soft at the beginning.

Also- do you know if your soap went through the gel stage? If not, then that could be a culprit, too, especially if combined with full-water and regular sunflower and safflower. Even if you used the HO kind of sunflower and safflower, un-gelled soaps made with full-water can remain soft for many days after being made.

But not to worry, though- they do harden up nicely with cure. I would give yours at least a 6 week cure before making any judgment calls on it. Just let your soap sit to do it's thing. As I'm often fond of saying, time is a soap's best friend.



IrishLass

 

[cheshiresoapco]

I'm not sure if they were HO or not I will have to check. I bought the only ones the grocery store had...

As for the water, what would I discount it? I'm still new at this and don't know how to change the water to a lesser value.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Ah, I thought that you were https://m.facebook.com/cheshiresoapco?refsrc=https://www.facebook.com/cheshiresoapco (because of the soft soap post, too)

If not, I think a change of username might be in order to save confusion or even problems later on.

 

[IrishLass]

I'm not sure if they were HO or not I will have to check. I bought the only ones the grocery store had...

As for the water, what would I discount it? I'm still new at this and don't know how to change the water to a lesser value.

Are you using SoapCalc as your lye/water calculator? If so, click on the 'Lye Concentration' box (which is the best way to change your water amount on SoapCalc if you ask me). Then type '33' in the box. That will change your water amount so that your batch will have a lye:water ratio of 1 part lye to 2 parts water, which I think would be the ideal water amount for this recipe. When done entering the rest of your recipe ingredients, click 'Calculate' and then 'View/Print' to get your recipe amounts of water, lye, oils, etc...

Don't hesitate to ask questions if things are still not clear. We're here to help.


IrishLass

 

[cheshiresoapco]

thank you I will be sure to try that! Now, the recipe I listed aside from the scent, is my main soap recipe. I worked pretty darn hard creating it on soap calc and getting it to a good range on the characteristics list. I'm really satisfied with the recipe but with the soft issue should I always change the water to 33 since I will be using that same recipe with different scents and additives.

 

[cheshiresoapco]

Ah, I thought that you were https://m.facebook.com/cheshiresoapco?refsrc=https://www.facebook.com/cheshiresoapco (because of the soft soap post, too)

If not, I think a change of username might be in order to save confusion or even problems later on.

Yes that is me

 

[not_ally]

should I always change the water to 33 since I will be using that same recipe with different scents and additives.

Assuming all other factors (recipe/process/additives/soaping enviroment) are the same, the softness is strange, if from the FO. When I have had issues w/them it is the exact opposite, they speed up really fast while mixing and get get hard/clumpy while mixing/pouring. And tend to stay that way, it is a pain. The only times they have been otherwise, ie; not accelerating FO's, I think I have used too much, is it possible that is the case here? I do a *lot* of research on FO's before I buy them b/c I just really don't want to use/waste money on problem ones for that reason.

Re always using a 33% lye concentratation, I mostly do that, based in significant part on Irish Lasses instructive posts here. I definitely do not always do it, though. If I am using an FO or additive that I think might speed trace - espec. if I am trying it for the first time - I am much more likely to use more water.

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto what not_ally said in regards the 33% lye concentration. It's my go-to water amount for the majority of my batches. It's a lovely amount of water to work with because things don't move too fast or too slow and you can unmold and cut quicker.

The only times that I really ever change it is when I'm making a 100% olive oil batch, and also when I'm working with an ornery fragrance oil.

In the case of the 100% olive oil, I'll reduce my water down to a 40% lye concentration, because if I don't, my soap takes forever and a day to firm up.

In the case of working with ornery fragrance oils, I'm like not_ally- I'll just use even more water, such as a 31% lye concentration for example, or in really extreme cases, a 28% lye concentration, which is considered a 'full water' amount. I try not to go to the full water amount if I can help it. It takes a real special fragrance oil for me to have to go to that level. lol


IrishLass

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Yes that is me

Ah okay. In which case I'm going to appear to be the nasty one who says this - I don't think you're ready to be selling soaps. Stop selling and just get back to learning how to soap well enough that issues such as water discount and what type of oils are not actually issues.

 

[jules92207]

I don't think anyone asked yet, forgive me if they did, could your lye be getting old? I've had some funky batches I am pretty sure were the result of my lye turning. Just a thought.

 

[cheshiresoapco]

I don't think anyone asked yet, forgive me if they did, could your lye be getting old? I've had some funky batches I am pretty sure were the result of my lye turning. Just a thought.

I don't think so I just barely ordered it.

 

[cheshiresoapco]

Ah okay. In which case I'm going to appear to be the nasty one who says this - I don't think you're ready to be selling soaps. Stop selling and just get back to learning how to soap well enough that issues such as water discount and what type of oils are not actually issues.

This is the first time I've ever had this problem. My soaps have always been hard and gave amazing lathers. In all my research the water amount suggested was always 38% so I just always stuck with it. I haven't ever used FOs before this. I only used EOs. My organic soaps are huge sellers locally as I haven't put much effort into selling online. I decided to change my recipe and use one basic recipe which is when I ran into issues

 

[not_ally]

I think EG's point is that you don't seem to have a very good grasp on some basic concepts, like water discounting, it is not really an EO/FO thing. Full water is a lot of water, and is not used that much on a consistent basis by experienced soapers b/c it takes the soap longer to harden/cut, makes glycerin rivers more likely, other things. It is just one of those issues that if you are not experienced with it, it is a potential flag that you might want to work on your soaps a bit more before selling then.

I am not trying to beat you over the head with this. Just trying to explain why your posts raised flags.

 

[cheshiresoapco]

I haven't ever had a reason to change the water. I get his point but in all my research they recommend keeping it at 38% as the lye calculator automatically puts it there and it was fine. All my batches have been hard and ready to cut by the next day and with the exception of my first goat milk batch overheating I have yet to experience any badly behaving soap. I wouldn't have thought of decreasing the water since the only change was the fragrance oil. Apparently I'm not watching or reading the right materials if full water isn't a normal amount used. Never been a problem but who knows. I've recalculated my lye calculator with high oleic oil settings so I'm gonna give it a try with less water and see how it goes.

 

[DeeAnna]

It's not that "full water" is wrong or right ... it's a choice. I don't know what resources you are using to learn about soaping techniques, but I'm guessing they're fairly basic primers. Many authors writing how-to-soap tutorials stick with that 38% water as % of oils setting because it's safe and simple for beginners -- but it's definitely not the best or only choice out there for all soapers and all soap recipes. If it was, you wouldn't see the option in Soapcalc (or your favorite soap recipe calc) to change it. There are good reasons for soaping with something less than "full water", and that kind of knowledge is what you need to take your abilities to the next level.

Irish Lass and Not Ally are giving you some good stuff -- it's well worth taking their advice into consideration.