Dual lye castile

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Has anyone done a comparison of sugar, koh, and sugar and koh in bars to see the differences if any?

 

[Scooter]

Has anyone done a comparison of sugar, koh, and sugar and koh in bars to see the differences if any?

Such a great question. I am very interested in this.

Scooter

 

[Scooter]

"Castile 95%NaOH 5%KOH calculations help" by Earlene: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=60350
"Dual Alkali Soaps (NaOH & KOH)" by Nikos (ngian): http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=61561

Thank you so much DeeAnna. I love how people share so much of their experience on this forum. It really helps newbies like me.

Scooter

 

[CTAnton]

I feel like Irish Lass...just when you thought you could turn your back on high olive oil percentage soaps...I plan on doing a batch tomorrow for next year's Christmas gifts...although I'm not sure a year old cure will make a noticeable difference on a hybrid lye soap...

 

[earlene]

Has anyone done a comparison of sugar, koh, and sugar and koh in bars to see the differences if any?

I am curious what you mean exactly? Sometimes I don't quite understand something that may be clear to someone else, so please help me understand your question.

Dual Lye soap with added sugar versus Dual Lye soap without added sugar?

Or something else? Or that and something more?

I have thought of doing side-by-side batches of with-sugar and without-sugar in some recipes to see if there really is a big difference, but have not done.

 

[Scooter]

I am curious what you mean exactly? Sometimes I don't quite understand something that may be clear to someone else, so please help me understand your question.

Dual Lye soap with added sugar versus Dual Lye soap without added sugar?

Or something else? Or that and something more?

I have thought of doing side-by-side batches of with-sugar and without-sugar in some recipes to see if there really is a big difference, but have not done.

The way I read his question I thought he meant to test three different scenarios: 1) the effect of KOH alone versus 2) the effect of sugar alone versus* 3) the effect of KOH and sugar combined. I am also assuming (maybe wrongly) that there is no CO nor castor oil in any of these soaps and such an experiment would look just at the differences in lathering created by a little additional KOH or sugar.

I would like to hear more from TEG about how he would set up such an experiment.

*ETA: So in case #1 no added sugar and in case #2 no dual lye, just NaOH for case #2

--Scooter

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Scoots was right - I would make 3 batches with the same recipe, except for a variation:

Batch 1 - 100% NaOH with added sugar
Batch 2 - 5% KOH, no sugar
Batch 3 - 5% KOH, with sugar

I think for many of us the difference between a pure NaOH soap with no sugar and one with is clear, so we can keep it at 3 variations. Batch 1 is control.

 

[Susie]

I can help there, but with high lard rather than high OO soap:

1) Sugar, no KOH: Rich, creamy, dense lather. Not a lot of large bubbles, not a lot of lather, but it gets the job done.
2) 5% KOH, no sugar: lather is still creamy, not quite as rich, larger bubbles, more like syndet lather (had to open a bar of Zest that was purchased before I married him), but not quite the same as syndet lather.
3) 5% KOH, with sugar: Rich, creamy, less dense lather. Lots of lather. Small, medium, and large bubbles. Much more like syndet lather. This is my new favorite method.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Brilliant, thanks Susie.

I did think that if anyone had tried out the bubbly boosters, it would be you!

 

[DeeAnna]

I hadn't tried sugar or honey, but I do several variations of a given soap recipe that has a high % of lard. One variant I do uses plain water, another uses beer, and a third uses a water infusion of sweetgrass as the liquid.

I'd say there's good agreement amongst soapers that beer boosts bubbles compared to plain water. I know the sweetgrass infusion increases bubble-age too, much like beer. I started using KOH in all my soap since July of this year, so I've now made all three variations without KOH and with KOH.

The beer or sweetgrass additive causes the lather to be more abundant for about the same amount of work compared with the water-only version. The additive doesn't seem to change the character of the lather a lot. If the lather is dense like whipped cream when made with only water, then a beer or sweetgrass version makes more of the same. Well, okay, maybe it's a little fluffier, but it still has mostly a whipped cream texture -- not super fluffy and light like a high coconut oil soap.

IMO, the KOH causes the lather to start quicker and easier and the lather has a spray of big, fluffy bubbles on top. The difference is really marked with a high oleic soap, but it happens with a high-lard soap too.

Some of this is subjective, I know, but I hope it helps.

 

[Susie]

I hadn't tried sugar or honey, but I do several variations of a given soap recipe that has a high % of lard. One variant I do uses plain water, another uses beer, and a third uses a water infusion of sweetgrass as the liquid.

I'd say there's good agreement amongst soapers that beer boosts bubbles compared to plain water. I know the sweetgrass infusion increases bubble-age too, much like beer. I started using KOH in all my soap since July of this year, so I've now made all three variations without KOH and with KOH.

The beer or sweetgrass additive causes the lather to be more abundant for about the same amount of work compared with the water-only version. The additive doesn't seem to change the character of the lather a lot. If the lather is dense like whipped cream when made with only water, then a beer or sweetgrass version makes more of the same. Well, okay, maybe it's a little fluffier, but it still has mostly a whipped cream texture -- not super fluffy and light like a high coconut oil soap.

IMO, the KOH causes the lather to start quicker and easier and the lather has a spray of big, fluffy bubbles on top. The difference is really marked with a high oleic soap, but it happens with a high-lard soap too.

Some of this is subjective, I know, but I hope it helps.

I was hoping you would have tested them! My results are subjective, also, but without videos, how else are we going to explain what we have?

 

[Dahila]

you got me interested I changed my best soap for dual lye, the only change I make for now. it contains lard and tallow

 

[Dahila]

I sample that soap as ^^ and it is really bubbly, will do it with others. Thanks guys

 

[Nanditasr]

Last weekend, I made a small batch of "mock castile" soap using 100% high oleic safflower oil, 5% KOH, balance NaOH, 40% lye solution concentration, 3% superfat.

Would this work if I used ammonia instead of KOH? I don't have KOH but I do have plenty of industrial strength ammonia (which needs to be diluted with 19 parts water, in order to simulate the store-bought 5% ammonia).

 

[DeeAnna]

I can't say, since I've not tried it. Ammonia based soap is more soluble than sodium soap, so theoretically it should work.

Just remember your stoichiometry -- this is not 5% by weight; it is 5% on a molar basis. And review and follow the chemical safety requirements for working with concentrated ammonia solutions.

 

[Nanditasr]

Just remember your stoichiometry -- this is not 5% by weight; it is 5% on a molar basis. And review and follow the chemical safety requirements for working with concentrated ammonia solutions.

I'm enthused to try it now!
About the stoichiometry: Yes, I've seen another post of yours where you've explained it; thanks.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I know the sweetgrass infusion increases bubble-age too, much like beer.

This is the first I've heard about this. Who knew?! I'm very interested. I have some dried sweet grass that I grew to make smudge sticks a few years back. Please m'am, I'd like to use it up and try this. So, should I crunch it or powder it? Is there a best ratio of this herb to oil? Is there a link I can read?

FYI: If I want to add "sugar" to a batch, I use starch water to make my lye solution, i.e., potato water, pasta water, rice water. Rice water is especially nice.

 

[earlene]

Zany, so when you boil pasta you don't add oil to the water, then? I always add into the boiling water before I add the pasta so have not felt it appropriate for a lye solution. But it's great in soup.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Zany, so when you boil pasta you don't add oil to the water, then?

Correct.

 

[homesteaders]

Making Castile soap this afternoon. I'll try it with 5% KOH this time. Thanks for the info!