DOS in Castile soaps

[Dawni]

Has anyone encountered DOS only in their Castile soaps?
What would be the cause?
Does the kind of olive oil make a difference, like say, would the chances be less with EVOO?
Any explanation for when it's not in spot form? Or did I just miss it before it spread.

I made the HP one in the first few days of April. Here's what they looked like then. Here's what one looks like now. All the bars are the same. They were stored in a box after curing for 2mos, and I check on them once in a while. I did not notice any orange spots at all prior to about a week (or s bit more) ago but it wasn't just spots.

My phone cam is a bit weird though. They're not that yellow with a tinge of green in person. Also my lighting is bad.

I made the CP one sometime in the last week of March. Here's what they looked like then. Here's what they look like now. In this case it's just one bar. These weren't stored in a box but were covered by a bamboo tray like the one they're sitting on. I check these less than the HP ones, they were that well hidden lol. I only noticed the spot today.

Any other uneven color is due to me trying an ITP ghost swirl. Also, the greenish tinge is again my camera.

Let's limit replies to Castile soaps for now please. Thank you!

 

[earlene]

Not, here. My 50% pomace OO Castiles have not produced any DOS. Neither have any of the others (without the pomace).

 

[Dawni]

I was just now in the kitchen @earlene and I remembered you mentioned this in another thread

Dawni, I have not made a 100% pomace Castile, but I have made a few batches of 50% pomace/50% regular OO and none of my Castiles have turned up with DOS.

Are you storing your soaps in light or darkness? I have found that some soaps stored with too much light can discolor on the surface in the way you describe. Oddly, though, soap that is in daily use at my kitchen sink, under a brightly lit window, does not discolor. So although light does play a role, repeated washing with the soap seems to prevent the discoloration. I don't quite understand why.

Is this how yours looked like? The first pic..

I recalled this specifically because the test piece of the HP Castile I made was right in front of me with no yellowish tinge at all.

Also, none of the bars smell differently from how they were before. Am I just desperately wishing it's not DOS so I don't toss these yet? Haha

The spot on the CP is DOS I think definitely... It's just on one, and upon closer inspection I noticed a dot of something. Don't know what it is though. I've removed the rest of em into a box.

 

[Obsidian]

Yes, I consistantly get dos in castile. Doesn't seem to matter what kind of OO I use, it all does it.
My theory is OO is generally old before it ever gets to the store. I've not tried any of the expensive california OO, the kind with press dates on the label.

I won't ever make castile again, no one likes it and I just end up throwing it away. In fact, I won't use OO at all anymore.

 

[cmzaha]

Yes, I consistantly get dos in castile. Doesn't seem to matter what kind of OO I use, it all does it.
My theory is OO is generally old before it ever gets to the store. I've not tried any of the expensive california OO, the kind with press dates on the label.

I won't ever make castile again, no one likes it and I just end up throwing it away. In fact, I won't use OO at all anymore.

It amazes how some can have dos problems with one type of soap and some not. I do not get does in Castille soap, which I make once a year but I am sure you remember I get dos in high lard soaps. Remember the sample . I really do not think there is any one answer. I am using a Castille soap made with pomace that is at least 4 years old, not a speck of dos. My yearly Castille soap is the only time I use OO, I just do not like it in soap.
ETA age of my pomace soap

 

[Dawni]

Good to know it's not just me. Haha I'm half kidding @Obsidian

Olive oil does not like me I think lol

No but seriously.... Very few of my soaps have it, and if they do, less than 30% because I found that RBO works better for me n mine.

I think I'll have another go at making Castile just to know for sure if I'll consistently get it. I'll make a really tiny batch and change all variables: filtered to distilled water, not sea salt, pomace to pure and/or EVOO and I'll find a better way to cure n store em. Let's see...

@shunt2011 I don't have any lard soap that's older than 6ish months but so far, no DOS, and I've gone as high as 60%. Hopefully I won't ever coz my mom n my friends love that soap lol

 

[Obsidian]

@cmzaha oh yeah, I remember your samples. That was some of the worse dos I've seen.
Even my 100% lard soap took nearly 2 years to start getting spotty.

I use HO safflower now instead of oo because its cheap and easy to find. I really prefer sunflower but its almost impossible to find and its really expensive.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Just found this pretty good link in my Bookmarks that addresses the problem with buying OO off the grocers' shelf . "Not all Olive Oils are Created Equally" by Soap Queen, Anne Marie.

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/olive-oils-created-equally/

 

[cmzaha]

I use HO Sunflower and Canola. I just checked the date for the 100% Pomace with ground olive, the were poured on 7/2015 and no antioxidants were added. It lathers beautifully and actually feels nice, even though I am not a lover of Castile Soap.

 

[earlene]

I was just now in the kitchen @earlene and I remembered you mentioned this in another thread

Is this how yours looked like? The first pic..

I recalled this specifically because the test piece of the HP Castile I made was right in front of me with no yellowish tinge at all.

Also, none of the bars smell differently from how they were before. Am I just desperately wishing it's not DOS so I don't toss these yet? Haha

The spot on the CP is DOS I think definitely... It's just on one, and upon closer inspection I noticed a dot of something. Don't know what it is though. I've removed the rest of em into a box.

Pretty close. It's been awhile since I actually made an uncolored Castile. I'm over plain Castile. I like them to look as pretty as the next soap.

Just because a soap has a spot of DOS, it does not mean you have to toss it out. If you press it into service by putting making it a handwashing soap sink-side, you will have the chance to see if it changes. Sure, keep one aside to watch and evaluate over time, but ongoing observation, IMO includes using the soap regularly, too. If it starts to smell 'off' you are more likely to notice it if you are washing your hands with it daily.

 

[Dawni]

Just because a soap has a spot of DOS, it does not mean you have to toss it out. If you press it into service by putting making it a handwashing soap sink-side, you will have the chance to see if it changes. Sure, keep one aside to watch and evaluate over time, but ongoing observation, IMO includes using the soap regularly, too. If it starts to smell 'off' you are more likely to notice it if you are washing your hands with it daily.

Well I carved out the yellow part of the CP soap one with the spot and it is in my bathroom sink since I posted first. I'm going to keep an eye on it. Unfortunately, I find it drying... But it's ok. I can easily use a lotion bar after.

I gave one of the HP ones to one of my male cousins who was listening to me rant about it. He volunteered to use it in the shower. Doesn't smell off to us both and he figures even if it was full fledged DOS he shouldn't have any issues. I let him at his own risk lol

 

[Cocolive]

Just found this pretty good link in my Bookmarks that addresses the problem with buying OO off the grocers' shelf . "Not all Olive Oils are Created Equally" by Soap Queen, Anne Marie.

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/olive-oils-created-equally/

Related to this article, have you tried making castile with different OO from other supplier? Also, how do we know surely if OO that we use is pure OO or adulterated. It could be the culprit.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Related to this article, have you tried making castile with different OO from other supplier?

No, sorry, I have not.

Also, how do we know surely if OO that we use is pure OO or adulterated.

My best advice is to buy from a well known supplier of soapmaking oils, i.e., Soapers Choice, Kirkland. As far as I know, this problem of adulteration occurs in the USA. If I were in Indonesia, I would buy certified Australian olive oil if it's available. They are tops in the world today.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Pretty close. It's been awhile since I actually made an uncolored Castile. I'm over plain Castile. I like them to look as pretty as the next soap.

Just because a soap has a spot of DOS, it does not mean you have to toss it out. If you press it into service by putting making it a handwashing soap sink-side, you will have the chance to see if it changes. Sure, keep one aside to watch and evaluate over time, but ongoing observation, IMO includes using the soap regularly, too. If it starts to smell 'off' you are more likely to notice it if you are washing your hands with it daily.

I read an interesting post about DOS somewhere in my travels that is consistent with what you are saying. It was about different ways DOS might start in soap. For example, if an oil or EO is bad, the whole batch might get DOS, but the DOS might also be caused by a small bit of a contaminant, in which case there might be only a single spot. I recently posted a soap with a spot of DOS that has a small speck of something in the middle of it. The red color of the speck was suspicious because nothing red was added to the soap. The soap smells perfectly nice and I’m enjoying it at the kitchen sink.

 

[Dawni]

Checked on those Castiles again..

Confirmed DOS on both the CP on the left most, and the HP in the middle. The CP one is a darker orange only on the underside, as shown, with nothing on the top, but the HP is actually a faint yellow all over. CP one smells strongly of old crayons only on the underside, HP less than that but it's there.

I included the small piece on the right, because, ironically, this was my test piece I cut from the middle bar and its been in the kitchen this whole time. I even forgot about it. I unearthed it under my bag of sea salt inside the spice cabinet (dunno how it got there lol) so I can't imagine why and how this fared better than its properly stored counterpart.. It is not yellow/orange in person, strange that it is in the pic. No old crayon smell on this small piece.

Wait, here, I took another pic

Just another one of those things when soap does what it wants I guess?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Sorry about your DOS . For me, DOS is one of the biggest disappointments in soap making. My cases seem to be associated with random OO from the grocery store, but the DOS has been distinct spots. When the DOS is in spots, doesn’t that point to contaminants rather than bad oil? Or, perhaps borderline or adulterated oils are more likely to get DOS spots if there are contaminants... The spots I’ve seen are all in soaps I made before I started adding ROE and then also adding citric acid or tetrasodium edta. You may have mentioned this above - did you add ROE +/or a chelator to your Castile soap? I have cut way back on using OO in favor of HO sunflower from Soapers Choice, but recently made a trip to a COSTCO to stock up on their OO since many in the US seem to have good results with the Kirkland brand.

a question for @DeeAnna if you have time or thoughts about this. Do you think “water spots” on a mold would make a soap made in the mold more vulnerable to DOS? The water at my house leaves a lot of spots if I hand wash and don’t towel dry right away. I don’t use tap water to make soap, but I do use it to hand wash my molds. I try to be extra careful to avoid spots, but it’s possible some slip by occasionally.

ETA: after thinking about it a bit, I went back to check my DOS notes. Of 7 bars with a DOS spot, 5 have the spot on a cut surface that did not touch a mold. A 100% lard bar looks orangey on the top. One of the cut bars has DOS where I tried to stamp it with a piece of silver jewelry (very early in my soaping career). A bar of ZNSC has diffuse DOS. It was made in a cavity mold and the DOS is on the impression side. Five of the 7 batches, including the Castile, were made during July 2019 and all contain OO. Soaps I made before that are fine and soaps I’ve made since are all fine so far. I guess that’s what made me first suspect a bad bottle of OO.

 

[TheGecko]

My theory is OO is generally old before it ever gets to the store.

I think that that is something we should remember about all oils and butters. We really don't know when the oil or butter was processed, when it was packaged, when it was distributed, when it finally ends up on the shelf for purchasing.

 

[Dawni]

@Mobjack Bay I did not use ROE or anything else in these Castiles. Didn't, and still don't know where to get it locally and imported is too expensive for me

Despite many getting DOS on Zany's recipe, I have not. In fact I was gonna post about it tomorrow coz it's the one year anniversary of that bar and still looks more or less the same.

The spotted soap in the first post was indeed because of a contaminant. I dug it up hence the hole. None of the tops of the CP Castiles have any hint of orange in any form but the bottoms do. My HP are all tinted yellow.

I refuse to believe it's my storage - how come all my other soaps, even older ones, are fine? And how come that poor, manhandled test piece isn't as yellow as the others? Kinda points towards OO just being OO lol

I've since almost stopped using olive oil because of the chance of adulterated oils, cost, and my skin doesn't like it. After 10mos they're still drying to me.

 

[Martha]

I made a batch of ZNSC (Zany’s No slime Castile) and have meant to post because I seem to have light colored spots. Weird.

 

[Martha]

@Dawni These are the spots I noticed in my No slime castile. I don't think I've ever seen posts on DWS (dreaded white spots).