Does the ingredients make a difference wrt skin care

[spaace]

Hi,

Thank you for this excellent forum.

I have just typed up my basic recipe and have this basic doubt.
Since, the chemistry involved convert the fats into soap, does the QUALITY of the fats in the ingredients make a difference wrt their action on the skin?
I mean, apart from the physical aspects of the SOAP like lather quality, or cleansing action, does the oils or fats used really affect the skin in any manner, in the final soap? (compared to the touted benefits for the raw oil - example here)

Thank you in advance
Arun

ps : My 1st recipe - do please comment if this is ok, for a 1st attempt.

https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/recipes/64110.1st

 

[Arimara]

Since soap is a wash-off product, you also would not get much out of it if you're looking for it to be conditioning (use water on skin and layer it with oil or use a lotion for that purpose). Soap making is a chemical process so much of the properties of the oils you use will be different at the end of the process. The only thing that might affect your soap might be impurities and unsaponifiables in an oil. That's usually remedies by getting your oils from reputable sources.

 

[spaace]

Thank you.

So is it safe to assume that experienced soap makers making soap for personal use, would generally use the cheapest ingredients, and only control for the different ingredients based on the lather type and amount of cleaning action/dryness in general ?

Rgds

 

[Carly B]

I don't think "cheapest" is necessarily the right word. There's cheap (inexpensive) and cheap (poor quality). Inexpensive ingredients are great, but you want to make sure your ingredients are pure and not rancid. Some "cheap" ingredients have a lot of additives or are ready to go "off" in a short period of time. As my husband says "Cheap can be expensive."

 

[Obsidian]

There is no reason to use top of the line oils in soap. As long as the oils are a good quality, a inexpensive option is great.

 

[Misschief]

I don't think "cheapest" is necessarily the right word. There's cheap (inexpensive) and cheap (poor quality). Inexpensive ingredients are great, but you want to make sure your ingredients are pure and not rancid. Some "cheap" ingredients have a lot of additives or are ready to go "off" in a short period of time. As my husband says "Cheap can be expensive."

Just as an aside, my husband always says "Only the rich can afford cheap".

 

[AliOop]

My husband ran a successful contracting business for many years. In his line of work, the word "cheap" was a pejorative, denoting a lack of quality or durability. His positive adjective of choice was "cost-effective."

 

[earlene]

A soapmaker may also take into account how the oils they want to use are processed. Some are processed in ways that are considered rather caustic to the environment. Some soapmakers and some customers prefer the oils used in their soaps to be more environmentally friendly or 'natural' or organic in order to be kinder to the skin and/or kinder to the environment. In those cases, the oils are often more expensive, depending on where the soapmaker lives, of course.

 

[Zing]

Welcome to the Forum! Some sellers will include more expensive ingredients for label appeal. While I know that soap is a wash-off product, I will tell you that my homemade soap transformed my skin! My skin has never been healthier. I've used recipes very similar to yours -- you'll like it. Keep us posted and we want photos!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Since, the chemistry involved convert the fats into soap, does the QUALITY of the fats in the ingredients make a difference wrt their action on the skin?

Good question!
Since I make both soap and lotion (and other leave-on products), I'll answer this way.

The purpose of soap is to cleanse the body and therefore I formulate for that purpose. Taking the example you gave, coconut oil, I use a judicious amount to add the bar qualities of lather & hardening. Too much can strip the skin of its oils.

The purpose of Lotion is to condition and moisturize. I don't use coconut oil at all in lotion because other oils serve the purpose far better, even though coconut oil is said to be conditioning in other leave on applications such as sunscreen.

I have just typed up my basic recipe

It looks find to me -- highly conditioning.

However, with an INS value of 139, vs an INS value of 160 (so-called "perfect" soap), I would expect that batch to stay in the mold longer before unmolding; wait a few days before it's ready to cut; and require a longer cure than the average 4-6 weeks to reach its peak.

I've used recipes very similar to yours -- you'll like it.

I agree with @Zing. Once it's fully cured, I think you'll like it. Well done! You wiil be well rewarded for your patience...

 

[lsg]

I think sesame oil would be better used in cooking than in soap.

 

[spaace]

I think sesame oil would be better used in cooking than in soap.

- I have it handy so i thought i would use it instead of buying yet another type of oil we hardly use in daily life.

Would you suggest another oil or should imply increase the coconout oil content since folks seems to think that this recipe is too conditioning in nature - I was not sure at what percentage of coconut oil the recipe is going to get too drying. I obviously wanted to hit a balance.

Thanks

or organic in order to be kinder to the skin

This here is the crux of what i had asked. Since all fats are converted to soap, i thought this sort of an effect is not possible ?

The other inputs seem to suggest the same and that any inexpensive oil would do (as long as its not adulterated / does not have impurities etc)

 

[earlene]

Some soapmakers believe otherwise. Many soap buyers believe otherwise. That was my point. When someone is worried that the chemicals used in the process of producing an oil, and that those chemicals or components thereof, remain in the oil, I think it's a legitimate concern. Particularly so if consumed, but there are some soapmakers and many people in the public who believe that those may survive the soapmaking process as well and thereby remain, at least to some degree, in the soap. Without proof that that does not happen (and I don't know if anyone has even attempted to proove this particular negative) some folks believe it does happen, or they may believe that because it is possible then 'why take the chance?'

I am simply pointing out that there are soapmakers and people who purchase soap who have a different point of view on this subject. Sure soap is a wash-off product, and usually does not stay on the skin for very long, but think about people who still have sensitive reactions to some common ingredients in soap (certain sensitizing fragrances, for example). Even though the soap would not have remained long on their skin, there was enough contact to result in a negative reaction for many people. How many people here do we have who started making their own soap because of some sort of negative impact from commercial soap? A few, perhaps many.

Incidentally, not all components of oils (fats) are converted to soap. The unsaponifiable components within oils are NOT converted to soap, but remain in the soap. Also unless you make a truly 0% SF soap, you're going to have some oil that was not saponified in the first place still in the soap. So in that case, the concern some may have that harsh chemical processing of some oils would or could mean some of that remains in the soap product, I cannot argue that they are wrong. I cannot argue that, because I have no proof otherwise.

An example of soap with unsaponified oils would be pretty much any soap with what many view as a normal superfat (5% is pretty common), but particularly Salt Bars, which often have a SF of 20% or more due to the high Coconut Oil content of many of them.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

some oil that was not saponified in the first place still in the soap. So in that case, the concern some may have that harsh chemical processing of some oils would or could mean some of that remains in the soap product,

While true, this reminds me of the obligatory Warning labels on every drug prescribed by doctors. When I am reluctant to take it, doctors advise me to weigh the risks against the benefits.

Case in Point: Pomace Oilve Oil is processed with hexane. Olive Oil is known to contain Unsaponifiables. It is also known for many beneficial qualities that make it one of the legs of the Basic Trinity of Oils -- "conditioning" for one. To my mind, the risk of having a miniscule amount of hexane in the final soap is so low that the benefits of using olive oil far outweigh the risk.

- I have it handy so i thought i would use it instead of buying yet another type of oil we hardly use in daily life.

That makes perfect sense to me.

Would you suggest another oil ... I obviously wanted to hit a balance.

Rather than "hitting a balance" you obviously formulated a highly conditioning bar. It's fine as is. I encourage you to make a small batch to see how you like it before tweaking anything. You may be quite pleased at your success!

 

[earlene]

I neither defend nor condemn others' beliefs about what makes any particular ingredient a better choice, just answering the question asked.

For my own purposes, of course I do generally do at least a cursory risk-benefit analysis when choosing what goes into or onto my body. To each their own, of course, and when we make decisions on how we are going to make soap it is really all about what we prefer or value when we choose what goes into our process. For some soapmakers the risk-benefit of putting the customer's values or beliefs ahead of their own may direct
a different path than they may take if making soap for themselves. Case-in-point: a non-vegan soapmaker who chooses to make vegan soap for friends, family or customers.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I choose oils/fats that give me the fatty acid profile I want, while still taking into account the cost of them. I still include some that are 'expensive' but only because I trialled them and felt they improved the feel of my soap - e.g Avocado oil.