Distilled Water

[Hazel]

I think you've both respectfully expressed your opinions.

JMO, but I'm more concerned with other things besides a few minerals. A year or so ago, my city issued water alerts several times and told people not to drink the water without boiling it for at least 10 minutes. Not me...uh uh...I went and bought 5 gal containers for consumption. I didn't even trust boiling it.

I'm sure there is more info on the safety of tap water but I thought this was an interesting article. http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/uscities.asp

 

[camillehabawel]

The problem with not using distilled water is that undistilled water, specifically TAP, contains free metals and different elements that affect your final soap.
What happens?
DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots) You wouldn't want this on your soap. You can use tap water and add a cheating agent that removes these free metals in unpurified water by adding a chemical called EDTA. EDTA actually reduces soap scum too.

Pls use distilled.

 

[shunt2011]

Just thought I'd bring to your attention that a couple of these posts are 3+ months old. Just in case you didn't notice. Welcome to the board. also, I've used tap water and never had an issue in 3+ years. I do use distilled or filtered too.

 

[Lindy]

The problem with not using distilled water is that undistilled water, specifically TAP, contains free metals and different elements that affect your final soap.
What happens?
DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots) You wouldn't want this on your soap. You can use tap water and add a cheating agent that removes these free metals in unpurified water by adding a chemical called EDTA. EDTA actually reduces soap scum too.

Pls use distilled.

Actually that is not true at all. I live on the side of a mountain with a lot of minerals in our water. I use nothing but tap water for water, well except when I use sea water, and I do not get DOS.

This is one of those myths people have started in recent years and there is no basis in truth to it.

 

[dryalligator]

I use a Brita. For those who don't know, it a pitcher with a charcoal filter in it. I keep 2 filled at all times. Ones for soap and ones for drinking. They know not to leave an empty pitcher in the fridge!!!

 

[Hazel]

add a cheating agent

It's chelating agent.

 

[xyxoxy]

Actually that is not true at all. I live on the side of a mountain with a lot of minerals in our water. I use nothing but tap water for water, well except when I use sea water, and I do not get DOS.

This is one of those myths people have started in recent years and there is no basis in truth to it.

Totally agree....
Using crappy oils and not formulating your recipes properly causes DOS. A few minerals in your water never hurt anyone.

 

[Dennis]

This probably isn't completely related, but there are so many water myths out there I couldn't help it. Granted, conditions vary from region to region, but standards are standards as set by the feds and they can really ask tough questions when doing inspections and checking records.
Any time there is a break in a water line a boil water notice is required by state department of environmental protection for the affected area. Water quality testing is done twice daily to insure there is no contamination in the supply. When results are complete and shown to meet state and federal standards, the boil water notice is lifted. This is routine practice in my state and may be in yours. Boil water notices should not instill fear, they are temporary until testing is complete. I would be more concerned about water lines being repaired and no testing being required.
I guess all of that means don't be freaked out by boil water notices. Water lines break and repairs are made.
I worked in water reclamation for umpteen years and the lovely but mysterious far far eastern sometimes soaping assistant, mother of my children is still a middle management minion in a water quality laboratory. We generally ignore the notices and go about our business. That's how uncommon bad test results are.
The only time I use other than tap water is when I travel. I use bottled spring water to make coffee because you never know how that water in the campground is going to taste. :shock:

 

[Hazel]

These weren't for breaks in the water lines. These notifications were made because of something (I don't remember what) was found while testing. We received automated phone calls from the city explaining what it was and to boil water until further notice. Allegedly, the new water plant is to be built this year. Just have to wait and see...

I don't have a problem with using tap because I have supplemented with it when I'm low on distilled. I just prefer to use distilled. Actually, I prefer to use beer but someone gets grumpy if I swipe too many of his beers. :roll:

 

[smeetree]

Distilled will give your soap a slightly higher pH. This is because it absorbs CO2 molecules from the air. You could remineralize it with a good sea salt (i.e. celtic sea salt is high in minerals), but the pH will likely remain low. This would require ionization to fix. On the other hand, distilled water will guarantee no contaminants in your soap. I've made soap with both distilled and tap and either is fine. It's just how far you want to take your control over the bar.

 

[Dennis]

Actually, I prefer to use beer but someone gets grumpy if I swipe too many of his beers. :roll:

Umm, to make soap or otherwise?

 

[Hazel]

To make soap. The vodka is mine.

Confession: I haven't drunk any vodka in a long time. I've been using it for soap, too. I do occasionally drink a few ounces of wine...and then use the rest for soap. Hmm...I'm seeing a behavioral pattern here. I may need an intervention.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you don't get DOS from using your local tap water, that's very good news for you and your soaps. Don't change a thing -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

On the other hand, trace metals in water can and do trigger rancidity in free fats. This is fact, not myth. If a person is using tap water for soap making and cannot solve ongoing problems with DOS, it might be a good idea to try distilled water to check if the tap water might be the cause.

"...Metals such as copper, iron, manganese, and chromium increase rate of fat oxidation.... It is important to note that water with trace metal is often a cause of
rancidity in food products...." http://gcca.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/RancidityAntioxidants.pdf‎

"...Metals in just trace amounts are recognized as the predominant pro-oxidant materials encountered in commercial fats and oils. It is estimated that copper or iron at concentrations of less than 1 ppm can cause very serious reduction of fat or oil stability. The problem is magnified by free fatty acids which act to solubilize metals in fat or oil...." http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02682653

"...it was soon recognized that some agent was needed to counteract the harmful effects of metallic ions commonly encountered in most food fats and oils. These metals, such as iron and copper, were soon recognized as powerful catalysts of fat oxidation..." http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02582481

 

[Dennis]

To make soap. The vodka is mine.

Confession: I haven't drunk any vodka in a long time. I've been using it for soap, too. I do occasionally drink a few ounces of wine...and then use the rest for soap. Hmm...I'm seeing a behavioral pattern here. I may need an intervention.

Oh Boy, an intervention! Will there be (ahem) refreshments?

 

[Hazel]

Only if you bring your own; otherwise, I can offer you distilled water.

 

[camillehabawel]

To Lindy
Then maybe you should question Dr. Kevin Dunn's research about not usin distilled water. Based on his book, he tells the readers to "Avoid using undistilled water as these have minerals that lead to DOS". Then maybe you should create your own research and contradict the Dr's findings. Pls read his book "Scientific Soapmaking" authored by him. It is not a myth Read to beleve

 

[Lin]

I prefer to use distilled water for consistent results, since tap water is not as consistent. Same as DeeAnna with scientific background you want to limit the variables that can effect your results (soap). So with water, I go for distilled. I am curious about what iodized salt does in a salt bar though since I haven't gotten that answered yet..

 

[DeeAnna]

"... Then maybe you should create your own research and contradict the Dr's findings...."

To my knowledge, Kevin Dunn has not presented any experimental findings on the specific matter of water quality for soapmaking, so he has no research for anyone to contradict or to support.

The bottom line is that many people do use tap water for their soap and don't have problems. That's a given fact that I have no problem with. I can understand why someone with that experience would think it's a waste of time and money to switch to distilled.

But when a soap maker is having unusual problems, I don't think it makes sense to ignore the possibility that the water or water based liquids may be adding trace metals or other contaminants that may affect the quality of the soap.

Can we all agree to disagree? I think this thread is starting to morph into a wrangle, not a discussion.

 

[Lindy]

To Lindy
Then maybe you should question Dr. Kevin Dunn's research about not usin distilled water. Based on his book, he tells the readers to "Avoid using undistilled water as these have minerals that lead to DOS". Then maybe you should create your own research and contradict the Dr's findings. Pls read his book "Scientific Soapmaking" authored by him. It is not a myth Read to beleve

Dr. Bronner does not teach soapmaking so any comments made by him are going to be to promote his brand. End of story.

I've been making soap for 6 years and selling for 5. I have never, ever used distilled water for soap and I have only had DOS once and it was because of too much heat where the soap was being stored on the way to a show.

 

[MagicalMysterySoap]

Dr. Bronner does not teach soapmaking so any comments made by him are going to be to promote his brand. End of story.

I've been making soap for 6 years and selling for 5. I have never, ever used distilled water for soap and I have only had DOS once and it was because of too much heat where the soap was being stored on the way to a show.

Dr. Bronners? Do you mean Dr. Kevin Dunn? I see no mention of bronners from the person you quoted...