Diagnosis of Problem and Help, Pretty Please

[Possum_Magic]

Hi There,

I am experimenting with new colorants and scents.

The following two soaps seized, but I was able to thin them out a bit and pour the batter into the loaf mold.

It was the first time I used TD, alkanet and rose clay. I am wondering if I overheated them during the curing period? They seem to have little veins through them.

I covered both loaves up fairly snuggly. I had some leftover batter on both occasions, which I put into a small jar and didn't cover nearly as well- they did not get the veins running through the soap like the big loaves did.

Also, can I please have some tips about working with these three colorants, like how to prepare, infuse, for how long etc?

I infused the alkanet with olive oil, but I still got purple specs. I infused the TD powder with water, and I mixed the clay with olive oil... or maybe it was water. I can't remember. Actually, I think i put it straight in to the batter.

Anyway, any help appreciated.

This is my recipe. I think I'll change it and add some cocoa butter to harden it???

BTW what is your favorite online soap calculator?

375g Mango butter
375g Coconut oil
375g Olive oil
375g Rice bran oil
205.912 g caustic soda
495g water

The rose clay soap is scented with rose geranium oil, and the askant soap is scented with lavender and cinnamon leaf oil.

How do I reduce the amount of water? I feel it has too much water in it. Is there a calculation I can do or is it trial and error. I Read through the soap makers companion, but it only shows you how to work out how much water you need, but doesn't explain how to mess with the numbers.

I hope I am making sense :crazy: and apologies if i have bombarded you with questions.

TIA

 

[lionprincess00]

Glycerine rivers caused from too much titanium dioxide. It's aesthetics only, and it adds a neat flare to some soaps, even if you weren't wanting it.
I love LOVE the blue!! It is my favorite color, so I may be biased there ;-)
I use soapcalc. it's the best lye calculator I've used for cp soap, thus far. I use the water amount at the top and 1, change it to lye concentration and plug in 33%, do a ratio of 2:1, 2.5:1, or adjust the water as a % of oil.
I usually do 32-35% as a % of oil in my water amount on the calculator. Eventually it'll all evaporate out, and the less water the quicker it sets up, so less water hinders swirling ability. I choose different water each soap based on needs.
Are you using a calculator for this recipe? You should always run every recipe you don't make yourself through one, so I wanted to check and ask.

 

[Obsidian]

The veins are called steric crackle and it can happen from too much heat during saponification (curing is what you after the soap has been cut) using TD seems to increase the possibility of getting crackle. Reducing water often helps, so does preventing gel in soaps with TD.

To help harden you soap, I would chose palm or lard. Too much butter will actually reduce lather. There also is no real reason to use both olive and rice bran, they do virtually the same thing in soap. I use soapcalc.net, you can choose you water ratio and it will figure the amount for you. Default is 38% of oils but I reduce it to 33 or so.

I like a basic recipe 50% lard or palm, 20% coconut, 25% olive or rice bran, 5% castor. I'm one of those people who dislikes butters in my soap, I'd rather use them in body butter or lotion.

TD come is different versions. One mixes with water, one with oil. I have the water soluble and mix it at least 15 minutes before use so it has time to full dissolve. Stir often to break up any clumps.

Rose clay is the same, mix with water before use and make sure to break up clumps. You don't need a lot of water, just enough to make a thin slurry.

I infuse my alkenet in olive oil for a few weeks, keep it some place warm and shake up every few days. When you use it, make sure all the powder has settled to the bottom and pour the oil off. If you mix the powder into your soap, you will always get specks. Some people mix the alkenet powder in their lye solution but I've not tried that yet.

 

[cmzaha]

Looks like td crackling,(some call glycerin rivers) from td overheating. Have to admit I have not heard of stearic crackle. I quite using water based td and the dual td a few years ago, because I always ended up with crackle even in ungelled soap. I now get a small glycerin river once in a while but very seldom. I use only oil soluble td now. TD does not seem to like insulation. As for your alkanet infusion, you could strain it through a nylon sock so you get out any leftover powder. I never use alkanet for the simple reason I cannot get the color I want, but when I did use it I strained it well through piece of a nylon ankle sock and did not end up with specks

 

[IrishLass]

It was the first time I used TD, alkanet and rose clay. I am wondering if I overheated them during the curing period? They seem to have little veins through them.

I think you meant to say 'saponification period' as opposed to 'curing period'. As Obsidian pointed out, 'curing' is what happens over the weeks after the soap has been unmolded and cut into bars.

Regarding the veins- that sometimes happens to me when my soap gets too hot during gel when using certain colorants, such as TD, or even with certain FO/colorant combos. Although it happens to me on occasion, it's so inconsistent that I've not been able to place my finger on a sole 'aha!' cause across the board. There seem to be other factors at play because some of my TD batches that get real hot never get the crackled veins, while a few others do. It's one of those soaping mysteries that I haven't quite figured out 100% yet.

Also, can I please have some tips about working with these three colorants, like how to prepare, infuse, for how long etc?

I infused the alkanet with olive oil, but I still got purple specs. I infused the TD powder with water, and I mixed the clay with olive oil... or maybe it was water. I can't remember. Actually, I think i put it straight in to the batter.

I don't have any experience using alkanet, but I use rose clay and TD. I've gotten into the habit of mixing them (and most of my other colorants) with vegetable glycerin before adding them to my batch. Glycerin seems to work well whether my colorants are oil-soluble or water soluble. I never put colorants directly into my batter without mixing them in glycerin or some other medium first...well, at least not anymore. They turn out horrible for me when I add them 'as-is' directly to the batter.

This is my recipe. I think I'll change it and add some cocoa butter to harden it???

BTW what is your favorite online soap calculator?

375g Mango butter
375g Coconut oil
375g Olive oil
375g Rice bran oil
205.912 g caustic soda
495g water

How do I reduce the amount of water? I feel it has too much water in it. Is there a calculation I can do or is it trial and error. I Read through the soap makers companion, but it only shows you how to work out how much water you need, but doesn't explain how to mess with the numbers.

I typed your soap formula into SoapCalc (my favorite online soap calculator for CP), and it looks plenty hard enough from where I'm sitting. I personally wouldn't change a thing, formula wise.

I see you are using 25% Olive Oil and 25% Rice Bran Oil. I hear that that combo makes for a nice Castile-type without the goop from using all-olive oil, so I personally wouldn't change that either.

It looks to me like your softness problem is due to too much water. If it were me, I would use 417 grams of water instead of the 495 grams (a 33% lye concentration/solution).

If you use SoapCalc, it gives you 2 ways to easily calculate your water amount. You can use their default "Water as % of oil" box, or their 'Lye Concentration' box (where water is based on lye amount). I prefer using their "Lye Concentration" box myself. It makes more logical sense to me, plus the results are consistent across the board regardless of variation of formula. Here's a great PDF that explains the difference between the two ways and why figuring water based on lye amount is a more reliable way to go: http://rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/dwcp.pdf

HTH!
IrishLass

 

[Dahila]

I am not expierenced in all soap making but so far I use TD oil soluble, and take out some olive oil and mix td or any other colorant with warm oil and frother. So far I had been lucky not to have overheated or cracked soap. I must try the glycerine.

 

[Possum_Magic]

I think you meant to say 'saponification period' as opposed to 'curing period'. As Obsidian pointed out, 'curing' is what happens over the weeks after the soap has been unmolded and cut into bars.
IrishLass

Yes, I did! Just a slip of the tongue (make 'em all the time, so it won't be the last time I make one on here, LOL). I appreciate the correction.

Thank you to everyone who has posted thus far. You have all given me much useful info to help solve my soaping problems.

Off to Soap Calc I go.

 

[Possum_Magic]

Are you using a calculator for this recipe? You should always run every recipe you don't make yourself through one, so I wanted to check and ask.

Yes, I used the calculator on the Brambleberry site. Not a huge fan, so I will give Soap Calc a whirl.