de-funk de pits

[TeresaT]

Theresa, I thought I'd let you know how extra impressed I've been with the babassu over this past weekend. My vehicle conked out on me the other day just after noontime as I was driving home from running some errands, and I spent about 50 minutes out by the side of the road in our blistering 110F weather waiting for the tow tuck to show up. Thankfully, it couldn't have conked out in a better place as there were some protective, shady trees nearby to sit under, and it also helped that the last errand I ran was to pick up some In & Out burgers and drinks for myself and my son and my nephew who were with me, but it was still quite the sweat-fest, and we were all quite drippy/glisteny by the time the tow guy showed up......... buuuut my pits stayed smelling pretty. Aaaaand they stayed smelling pretty the rest of the day without me having to re-apply anything.


IrishLass

I'm sorry about your car. I'm sure you've had it fixed by now (I really need to check this thread more often.) But I'm soooo thrilled that the babassu is working for you. I really like the fact that it is not greasy feeling and absorbs well into the skin. I've noticed that my pit hairs don't grow as much/fast when I'm using babassu directly on the pits. Anyone else notice that? I've been trying doriettefarm's "Pit Stop Lotion" for the past couple of weeks and have growth, so I guess it is the babassu oil alone that is inhibiting hair growth. (Unless I'm just imagining it.) I thought it was kind of interesting. I'm going to have to shave my legs then use babassu on one and not the other to see if there is any kind of delay in growth on the babassu leg. This is turning into a miracle oil. LOL.

 

[TeresaT]

From my experience I think you will be happier with spice jars. The powder I make from arrowroot and baking soda with EOs will not flow like commercial powder as they have flow agents added to them. I use old plastic spice jars with the larger holes in them and they have worked out good for me. I fought with bottles with smaller holes in them early on and quickly moved to the bigger ones.

Never tried an official powder bottle though so please share your thoughts on them when you get them.

Love them. I've been using one with unscented powder for a few weeks. It works great. The first round of scented powders I made didn't work very well. I think that's because I used the drops in the product and ended up having to try to sift through it with my fingers to break up the clumps. This next time around I'm going to put the FO on cotton balls and drop them into the jar and leave it for a few days (shaking when I think of it) to allow the aroma to be absorbed by the powders. I read one of the (many) online articles about making powder that suggested adding fragrance to the bath and body powders that way to avoid clumps. I tried it with one small batch (less than 4 oz) and it seems to have worked. However, I haven't put that into a bottle yet. I do know that I do not like baking soda in the powder. It is too scratchy; I threw that stuff away. This new batch is with rice powder, arrowroot powder, kaolin clay and diatomaceous earth. The DE and kaolin clay are both natural anti-caking agents as well as gentle drying agents reducing sebum and helping you to feel dry.

 

[doriettefarm]

I'm sorry about your car. I'm sure you've had it fixed by now (I really need to check this thread more often.) But I'm soooo thrilled that the babassu is working for you. I really like the fact that it is not greasy feeling and absorbs well into the skin. I've noticed that my pit hairs don't grow as much/fast when I'm using babassu directly on the pits. Anyone else notice that? I've been trying doriettefarm's "Pit Stop Lotion" for the past couple of weeks and have growth, so I guess it is the babassu oil alone that is inhibiting hair growth. (Unless I'm just imagining it.) I thought it was kind of interesting. I'm going to have to shave my legs then use babassu on one and not the other to see if there is any kind of delay in growth on the babassu leg. This is turning into a miracle oil. LOL.

Please keep us posted on your leg shaving experiment. I would be overjoyed if straight babassu slowed down hair growth because I detest shaving my legs!

 

[Arimara]

Please keep us posted on your leg shaving experiment. I would be overjoyed if straight babassu slowed down hair growth because I detest shaving my legs!

I'll shave once a month or go a little longer for sheer laziness when the weather turns cold. if it works out- SWEET!

 

[cherrycoke216]

This new batch is with rice powder, arrowroot powder, kaolin clay and diatomaceous earth. The DE and kaolin clay are both natural anti-caking agents as well as gentle drying agents reducing sebum and helping you to feel dry.

May I ask your DE micron size? ( or mesh ) Does it scratch?
my DE is way bigger than Arm and Hammer baking soda!!!
Have I gotten the wrong particle size?

Also, have any of you experiencing new grown or more blackhead when using butter ( or hard oil ) based deodorant? Besides oil stain, this is one thing I want to fix.

Thanks in advance!

 

[TeresaT]

May I ask your DE micron size? ( or mesh ) Does it scratch?
my DE is way bigger than Arm and Hammer baking soda!!!
Have I gotten the wrong particle size?

Also, have any of you experiencing new grown or more blackhead when using butter ( or hard oil ) based deodorant? Besides oil stain, this is one thing I want to fix.

Thanks in advance!

I didn't know DE came in different particle sizes. The only thing I can tell you is the one I'm currently using was given to me by a coworker. It is as fine as flour and is "food grade" DE. I purchased some DE online from ebay, but haven't opened it yet since I still have a good bit of the other left. This is what I purchased, though. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/301999949776?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT)

I don't plan on using any butters in the deodorant. Honestly, the thought never occurred to me simply because I want to keep the ingredients as limited as possible. The purpose for this particular deodorant experiment is to see if using babassu oil and known antimicrobial essential oils will work as well as a commercial deodorant at reducing armpit odor. I would think that adding a butter into the oil would just be increasing the "food" for the microbes.

I considered using beeswax in with the oil to give it a little more stability (not melt so much in the heat) but I decided against that. One thing I might try when I put it in the sticks, is to add a bit of rice flour to the oil to make it less greasy going on. However, the babassu oil absorbs into the skin very well and does not stain my clothes; so, adding rice flour might actually cause staining. I won't know until I try it.

 

[beckster51]

Just a quick comment on defunking pits! I have successfully used rubbing alcohol to sanitize my pits. Don't use it after shaving - ouch! But applying alcohol and letting it dry kills most germs. I guess you could use alcohol hand rubs if you like. I am a nurse, and alcohol is one of the best "de-germers" out there. It would be easier to use that powders and clays and probably more effective. ymmv

 

[TeresaT]

Just a quick comment on defunking pits! I have successfully used rubbing alcohol to sanitize my pits. Don't use it after shaving - ouch! But applying alcohol and letting it dry kills most germs. I guess you could use alcohol hand rubs if you like. I am a nurse, and alcohol is one of the best "de-germers" out there. It would be easier to use that powders and clays and probably more effective. ymmv

No doubt about the effectiveness of alcohol. I actually do use that on occasion. (And have used hand sanitizer gel while out and about to freshen up a bit. If I can smell me, I'm sure someone else can, too!) However, the point of the clay to "detox" the pits is more for a long-lasting deep cleansing of the pores and sweat glands than it is of removal of surface bacteria.

Most people use antiperspirants (not deodorants). Antiperspirants work by plugging the sweat glands; thereby not allowing them to do their job. They also leave a film behind on your skin that you can feel, especially when you're shaving. Your razor tends to skip instead of glide. Some people don't use wash cloths or poufs to shower; they just lather up with the bar. In that case, the film doesn't wash off. The components of commercial antiperspirants are not water soluble. You've got to scrub that off.

By using the clay to detox your pits after you stop using a commercial product; you are allowing the clay to unclog the pores and sweat glands of any residual product. I noticed after using the clay, I had a noticeable reduced amount of odor (perhaps I should unnoticeable amount of odor?). I had stopped using the commercial antiperspirant once I did the pit detox. I believe part of the issue of the odor is the actual antiperspirant stick itself. I believe that bacteria are growing on the product and I'm applying those bacteria to my armpit. I have no scientific proof of this; this is solely my opinion of what may have been contributing to my underarm odor. My pits do not stink as much as they did when I used commercial products. Logic would tell you this is the direct opposite of what is supposed to happen.

I have not made my deodorant in stick form yet. (I've been too lazy.) So, maybe the true benefit to this experiment is in getting away from a stick form and applying a paste or lotion form. By doing that, and using fingers, there will be no bacterial growth on the "applicator" because I wash my hands before and after application. The true "tell" will be when I melt down some babassu oil and pour it into a tube to harden back up. However, I'll probably end up adding some DE or something else to it to make it less greasy when I apply, since I wouldn't have as much control over the amount as with my fingers. Another problem (I just thought of) with the stick compared to the finger application is absorption. Right now, I'm able to rub the concoction into the skin until it is mostly absorbed. I believe this is one of the reasons my clothes are not stained. Using a stick product, I wouldn't be able to do that. Well, I would, but that would defeat the purpose of using a stick deodorant if I have to follow up application with rubbing the product in with my fingers. I might as well just use a jar. :think:

All in all, I think this experiment is actually fascinating. I have not used a commercial antiperspirant or deodorant product since I did the pit detox (7/25) and I am very comfortable going out in public every day. Most days at work, I wear a sleeveless blouse or dress and don't worry about raising my arms above my head to get something from a cabinet or what ever. I was actually sharing the details of my experiment with my boss from Nashville when he came to Chattanooga for an inspection. He laughed at the whole idea of it, but is willing to be a guinea pig for me when I get the sticks made up with the final combination of essential oils. If I discover the sticks are not working, I'll just make up jars of it to send to my testers. So much to do, so little time to do it.

 

[debra062013]

Since I received this in an update/ popular Soap forum email have not read all the replies.
What I am using is Bentonite clay, apple cider vinegar (Bragg's) and water. At first it stung a bit but now it does not.
Dries quickly and other than a few minutes of vinegar smell it works great.
I don't think you need to use Bragg's because it is expensive but I had it on hand.
That concludes my de stink de pits comment
:mrgreen:

 

[TeresaT]

Since I received this in an update/ popular Soap forum email have not read all the replies.
What I am using is Bentonite clay, apple cider vinegar (Bragg's) and water. At first it stung a bit but now it does not.
Dries quickly and other than a few minutes of vinegar smell it works great.
I don't think you need to use Bragg's because it is expensive but I had it on hand.
That concludes my de stink de pits comment
:mrgreen:

That's what you use daily as a deodorant or to occasionally detox your pits? Where did you get the recipe (or how did you come up with the idea of that particular combination?) Is it a liquid that you spray or roll on or a paste that you apply? Does it stain your clothes (after it dries, does the clay flake off onto the clothes like powder would)? See what you started? You can't just make a statement like that and not explain yourself.

(This thread is about an experiment using babassu oil and various essential oils as a deodorant. They have antimicrobial properties and we're trying to figure out the best combination to use.)

 

[debra062013]

Sorry I was just giving my way of ridding de stink:
I got the recipe from one of the 100s of DIY that pop up on my FB page.The first time I mixed it in an open container and it kept drying out so I added more vinegar. But now I must find a small lidded jar because it really works. For some reason all commercial deodorants have stopped working for me even though I have been hiding inside in the a/c this Fl summer.
This mixture goes on wet, dries fast, does not flake or stain. I can smell the vinegar for a few minutes but by the time I am dressed the vinegar smell is gone. It does sting occasionally because I don't have to use it daily so I believe it detox's my pits once a week???? (my guess).
I will try to find the source and post it. You only use a little and I have a lot of bentonite clay to use.
Here is where I found it and in the mean time I searched in my 3 boxes of mason jars and found a small one to make a bigger batch. . I now use my fingers to apply but that might gross some folks out so you could use a facial pad or even a small spatula (mine is gone to soaping) but I don't mind using my fingers.
http://wellnessmama.com/25432/detox-your-armpits/

That's what you use daily as a deodorant or to occasionally detox your pits? Where did you get the recipe (or how did you come up with the idea of that particular combination?) Is it a liquid that you spray or roll on or a paste that you apply? Does it stain your clothes (after it dries, does the clay flake off onto the clothes like powder would)? See what you started? You can't just make a statement like that and not explain yourself.

(This thread is about an experiment using babassu oil and various essential oils as a deodorant. They have antimicrobial properties and we're trying to figure out the best combination to use.)

 

[IrishLass]

Just a quick comment on defunking pits! I have successfully used rubbing alcohol to sanitize my pits. Don't use it after shaving - ouch! But applying alcohol and letting it dry kills most germs. I guess you could use alcohol hand rubs if you like. I am a nurse, and alcohol is one of the best "de-germers" out there. It would be easier to use that powders and clays and probably more effective. ymmv

I've used alcohol, too (70% Isopropyl) , and although it certainly does help, the de-stinking effects unfortunately do not last all day with me, and it dries my pits out something horrible if used too many days in a row, causing dryness, redness and irritation.

What I love about the babassu oil is that it does a wonderful de-stinking job that lasts all day on me with only 1 application no matter how much I might sweat during the day in our hot, sweltering weather, and I can use it every day without it drying me out like Isopropyl alcohol does. And it doesn't stain my shirts/blouses! It's a win, win, win for me!


IrishLass

 

[TeresaT]

I've used alcohol, too (70% Isopropyl) , and although it certainly does help, the de-stinking effects unfortunately do not last all day with me, and it dries my pits out something horrible if used too many days in a row, causing dryness, redness and irritation.

What I love about the babassu oil is that it does a wonderful de-stinking job that lasts all day on me with only 1 application no matter how much I might sweat during the day in our hot, sweltering weather, and I can use it every day without it drying me out like Isopropyl alcohol does. And it doesn't stain my shirts/blouses! It's a win, win, win for me!


IrishLass

I'm so glad! This is such an awesome post!! Have you noticed any benefits to the skin itself after using the babassu for a while? I've notice that my skin is softer and no bumps or redness, even after shaving. It's an extra benefit of moisturizing the skin that no one ever moisturizes! It's also easier to shave whenever I do (which is not often at all).

 

[doriettefarm]

Just wanted to share this link in case anyone else was trying to formulate a cream deodorant. http://soapdelinews.com/2016/09/natural-lavender-cream-deodorant-recipe-bentonite-clay.html

One of the ingredients is magnesium hydroxide (active ingredient in milk of magnesia). I'm assuming it's the powdered form because the recipe says to mix it with bentonite clay & arrowroot powder then add to the wet ingredients.

I might be game to try this recipe because it doesn't contain baking soda which always gives me 'pits of fire'. But I'm also pretty happy with the pit lotion I formulated so not sure if I want to change what's working at the moment. My only hesitation with the above recipe is the shea butter . . . I worry it's going to stain my shirts and the babassu based lotion has shown no signs of doing that whatsoever.

 

[DeeAnna]

Thanks for sharing that! Some thoughts --

Why not use the babassu in place of the shea? Also, keep in mind that the FCO might have an effect similar to babassu.

I see the recipe in the link calls for neem. I'd prefer not to have BO, but if the price of no body odor is putting up with the smell of neem ... I'm not sure I could do that. :sick:

 

[TeresaT]

Just wanted to share this link in case anyone else was trying to formulate a cream deodorant. http://soapdelinews.com/2016/09/natural-lavender-cream-deodorant-recipe-bentonite-clay.html

One of the ingredients is magnesium hydroxide (active ingredient in milk of magnesia). I'm assuming it's the powdered form because the recipe says to mix it with bentonite clay & arrowroot powder then add to the wet ingredients.

I might be game to try this recipe because it doesn't contain baking soda which always gives me 'pits of fire'. But I'm also pretty happy with the pit lotion I formulated so not sure if I want to change what's working at the moment. My only hesitation with the above recipe is the shea butter . . . I worry it's going to stain my shirts and the babassu based lotion has shown no signs of doing that whatsoever.

I'm happy with the pit lotion, too. I looked at the recipe in the link. I don't make lotions or body butters yet. However, it seems odd to me to use fractionated coconut oil and neem oil then add e-wax to it to prevent separation. Why not use regular coconut oil? Wouldn't it have less chance of separating than using two liquid oils?

I'll probably give the recipe a try using the babassu oil instead of fractionated coconut oil. I've already established that coconut oil just does not work for me as a deodorant.

BTW: I did make up a deo stick with babassu a little bit of diatomaceous earth and clove EO. The stick did not work very well this morning. I put too much deo on and had to rub it in with my fingers--which totally defeated the purpose of having a stick to begin with. I was afraid that would happen. I'll try again tomorrow to use less. But I think the way to go (for me personally, I don't know about anyone else) will be a lotion, cream or paste. I'll try to made some by just whipping it with DE and the EOs. I wonder if whipping the oil as it's cooling down will help it to retain the airiness or if I'd have to add a softer oil to it. There's only one way for me to find out.

 

[earlene]

I have made deodorant with coconut oil. And I have also used deodorant with one of the butters. Both stain my clothes. So beware of that problem. I prefer non-staining underarm deodorants. Happily after reading here about MOM, I started using it and it's great. No stains and it actually works very well all day long, at least for me.

 

[DeeAnna]

The e-wax isn't there to prevent separation of the oils from each other. They will stay mixed just fine without any emulsifier.

One of the complaints about a fat-based deodorant is buildup of the product on one's clothes. Adding an emulsifier would definitely help with that problem.

This recipe strikes me as being very similar to an emulsifying sugar scrub -- one that is basically a mixture of fats, sugar, and emulsifier. The emulsifier in the scrub doesn't do anything at first except behave as a thickener. When the user rinses her face, water is then added to the product, and the emulsifier suddenly can do its real job of emulsifying the fats in the water so the fat rinses off the skin cleanly.

The e-wax in the deodorant recipe is functioning the same as the emulsifier in an emulsifying scrub. When the clothing is washed, the emulsifier is going to help the deodorant residue wash out of the fabric more completely. (I suppose you could argue that sweat would emulsify the product too.) In some commercial deodorants, sodium stearate (the soap of stearic acid) is used as a thickener, but this soap would also help the product wash out of clothing more cleanly.

So if y'all want to stick with the babassu, by all means, stick with it. I really don't think the shea and FCO blend in the original recipe is writ in stone. And I'm not totally convinced the clay and arrowroot are even needed except as fillers and texture modifiers. I can't say I'm real excited about idea of clay and starch coating the armpit area of a nice dress blouse.

I am a bit concerned about the amount of EOs called for in this recipe -- about 3% by weight. I'd cut that back to 1% to 2% in a product meant for long-term use on a specific patch of delicate skin.

I think the key concepts in the recipe are the use of the emulsifier to solubilize the fat in the washing machine and the use of magnesium oxide to (I think) inhibit bacterial growth. Add the use of babassu which does seem to be effective in controlling BO, however it does it ... and there's the germ of an idea that might work very nicely for y'all.

 

[TeresaT]

The e-wax isn't there to prevent separation of the oils from each other. They will stay mixed just fine without any emulsifier.

One of the complaints about a fat-based deodorant is buildup of the product on one's clothes. Adding an emulsifier would definitely help with that problem.

This recipe strikes me as being very similar to an emulsifying sugar scrub -- one that is basically a mixture of fats, sugar, and emulsifier. The emulsifier in the scrub doesn't do anything at first except behave as a thickener. When the user rinses her face, water is then added to the product, and the emulsifier suddenly can do its real job of emulsifying the fats in the water so the fat rinses off the skin cleanly.

The e-wax in the deodorant recipe is functioning the same as the emulsifier in an emulsifying scrub. When the clothing is washed, the emulsifier is going to help the deodorant residue wash out of the fabric more completely. (I suppose you could argue that sweat would emulsify the product too.) In some commercial deodorants, sodium stearate (the soap of stearic acid) is used as a thickener, but this soap would also help the product wash out of clothing more cleanly.

So if y'all want to stick with the babassu, by all means, stick with it. I really don't think the shea and FCO blend in the original recipe is writ in stone. And I'm not totally convinced the clay and arrowroot are even needed except as fillers and texture modifiers. I can't say I'm real excited about idea of clay and starch coating the armpit area of a nice dress blouse.

I am a bit concerned about the amount of EOs called for in this recipe -- about 3% by weight. I'd cut that back to 1% to 2% in a product meant for long-term use on a specific patch of delicate skin.

I think the key concepts in the recipe are the use of the emulsifier to solubilize the fat in the washing machine and the use of magnesium oxide to (I think) inhibit bacterial growth. Add the use of babassu which does seem to be effective in controlling BO, however it does it ... and there's the germ of an idea that might work very nicely for y'all.

1. I thought they would stay mixed without an emulsifier since there is no water in there.
2. I didn't know this. I thought emulsifiers were used to make sure water and fats didn't separate. However, wording it differently, emulsifiers bind water and fats together. So, I can now see how this would help clean the arm pit areas of clothes by binding the fats to the water and washing them down the drain.
3. I added some DE to my stick deodorant to help maintain the texture and hardness a bit in the container. I don't know if that's really necessary since it's getting cold and the babassu is still pretty solid in the morning. I'll have to try again in the summer.
4. Putting the DE in the "formula" was a hard choice for this exact reason. But I didn't use a lot of it and it doesn't seem to be staining or coming off. But, I do make sure the deodorant is well absorbed into my skin before I get dressed and I don't use a lot of product. Using the stick is actually bad for me because I ended up putting too much on and had to wipe some off and then rub the rest in. Which defeats the purpose of using a stick.
5. I think that's too much EO, too, especially if you're going to use the EOs on the list of antimicrobial ones. Lemongrass is strong and burns if you put too much in there, plus according to a post by Reflection, you shouldn't be using it long term. Clove oil burns, too, in high quantities. (I'm not sure why you'd want to put lavender EO in a deodorant. Lavender is associated with calming/sleeping; do you want your deodorant to make you fall asleep? Ha!)
6. I wonder if just adding magnesium to the babassu with bring anything to the party. There's only one way to find out...

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I thought they would stay mixed without an emulsifier since there is no water in there.... I can now see how this would help clean the arm pit areas of clothes by binding the fats to the water and washing them down the drain...."

That's exactly right -- the emulsifier doesn't function as an emulsifier in the deodorant mixture itself, because there is no water in the product to emulsify with the fats. It basically is acting as a thickener in the deodorant mixture before it's put on the skin. This is a good thing -- it lets you use low-melting-point fats or liquid fats without ending up with a goopy, runny product.

But the e-wax ~will~ function as an emulsifier when washing the clothes that have deodorant residue. Here are two threads where we talk about this very thing, although in the context of emulsifying sugar scrubs that wash cleanly off the skin and down the drain. In a scrub or in this recipe for deodorant, the emulsifier functions in a similar way.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=59775
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=580947

"...I'm not sure why you'd want to put lavender EO in a deodorant. Lavender is associated with calming/sleeping..."

Believe it or not, lavender EO is a good all purpose EO for skin ailments, as well as for sleeplessness and anxiety. It is antiseptic, antibacterial (MRSA, staph), and antifungal (candida) and promotes healing. Lavender is one of the safest EOs to use on the skin -- it seldom irritates or causes a reaction.

It pairs well with tea tree -- the two together work better than either alone at providing antiseptic and antimicrobial properties. That's good since tea tree is a skin irritant. Blending it with lavender allows one to use less tea tree and still get good results. All that said, I personally wouldn't use 3% total EO in a daily-use product.