de-funk de pits

[IrishLass]

I never thought I'd ever say this about a "hand-applied", crème-type of deodorant, but I must say that I'm quite content with the creamy consistency of mine, which only contains the babassu and mag hydroxide and must be applied by hand.

Applying by hand was weird to me at first because I've only ever used deodorants packaged in either a roll-on or stick applicator all of my life, but applying by hand has become so normal to me now that I currently have no desire to add waxes or some other type of hardener to try making a solid version. I may one day, though (never say never).



IrishLass

 

[TeresaT]

This is really interesting. I'm actually comfortable with just the babassu oil and magnesium hydroxide. I made a new batch this week and did 55% oil, 45% mg(oh)2. I added 4% (of total weight) fragrance. I meant to use coconut lime, since that's what I used when I made my recent batch of powder; but I grabbed black orchid instead. I like having the scented deodorant. I wasn't sure if I would, but it's light and gives me a bit more confidence about odor control. At the end of the day, I'm still smelling the black orchid, not funky pits.

 

[DeeAnna]

I can understand your point of view, Irish Lass, and applying the deo with fingers is a good way to keep this recipe really easy and simple. Speaking for myself, I like a stick type product that feels dry upon application. I never liked roll on liquids or those fancy wipe-on gels (sticky), nor aerosols (antiperspirant in my face and down my lungs -- ew!!!). I'm also not crazy about finger application -- I would tolerate it, if necessary. A dry feeling wipe-on stick is my happy place.

In my last tiny test batch, I reduced the Mg(OH)2 from 50% to 30% of the total with the remaining portion being mostly babassu (melt point about 76 F) with some BTMS (MP about 140 F) and cetyl alcohol (MP about 120 F), and a dab of fragrance. My original thought was to just use the cetyl alcohol to raise the overall melt point, but I then decided to add the BTMS to see if it would help the mixture to rinse cleanly.

The mixture is less draggy due to less MH powder, and I like that. The emulsifier does its job -- I rubbed some of the mixture on my hands and then rinsed them under cool water. It rinsed cleanly with water and mild agitation. The reduced MH still seems to control odor -- I worked outside filling and wrapping pallets of products today and I'm still nicely fresh tonight. And I was dripping sweat on my face working in the sun on those pallets, but there still seemed to be a mild antiperspirant effect in my pits while I worked.

So far so good, but I want to give this a longer test before I decide what I really think about it.

 

[KristaY]

Good points, everyone, on the wax addition. I really don't want to deal with a waxy build up on my shirts and bras so I'll skip it. My thought was to harden it a bit but, my thought should actually have been to apply it differently. I poured my deo into 2 oz roll up style deo containers and I love it this way. I found myself reverting back to my old style of applying it, basically using a heavy and firm hand. At first I found it smeared around the outside of the container because I was applying too much. Since then I've learned to lightly swipe only a couple of times and it's all good. Once the firm babassu hits the warm pit, it quickly melts.

I also started paying attention to my perspiration level after DeeAnna's comment about noticing it reducing for her. That's totally the case for me too. When I was using the MOM I was always sticky and could detect an unpleasant odor within an hour or two. With this combo it's significantly reduced the sticky-icky and I only notice an odor after a long day working and sweating in the heat. I'm seriously in love with this stuff!

 

[DeeAnna]

My underarms are really, REALLY sensitive to aluminum based antiperspirants. It started when I was in my 20s and I was in misery for months until I finally admitted to myself what the problem was. (I was mortified at that time to learn I would actually have to .... sweat .... to avoid the misery.)

Every decade or so since then, I try antiperspirants to see if anything has changed and quickly learn that my pits adamantly refuse to deal with antiperspirants. What happens to me is that I get infected sweat glands and general swelling and fever in the armpit tissues -- seriously icky and painful stuff. So I go back to using basic deodorant.

As an aside -- Shopping the antiperspirant shelves for just plain deodorant is a humbling experience, at least in US stores. You might find one, maybe two products, hidden like utter pariahs somewhere down on the very bottom shelf. Unattractively packaged and overly expensive for what you get.

So back to my point -- the MH-B deo recipe is really good news. I have not felt my armpits complain one bit with this recipe, even though it does seem to inhibit perspiration. I've used my first batch continuously for long enough that if my pits were going to complain, I know they would be showing signs of serious unhappiness by now.

:mrgreen:

 

[Dahila]

Yes I also have very sensitive skin in general. the deo works great, the skin looks healthy, no itching or irritation. I also use the MH as a powder, but only on extremely humid days. I wonder what cetyl is bringing to this deo. I use ewax but had not add cetyl. Would be it easier to wash off?
DeeAnna any insights?

 

[DeeAnna]

No insights just yet, Dahlia. I'm not convinced the cetyl is necessary -- the emulsifier may be enough.

My goals are to increase the melt temp a bit, make the deo more glidy on the skin (going lower in the MH % is also helpful), and make the deo wash out of fabrics even more easily. And I want all this without reducing the deodorant effectiveness and not causing irritation or other skin issues.

At the moment, this is still a work in progress.

 

[earlene]

I'm doubtful about using any type of wax in this type of product. What people are seeing with coconut oil and the butters (shea, cocoa, etc), these tend to accumulate in and discolor fabric. The point of using babassu oil is that people have found this specific fat is less staining and easier to wash out -- even better than coconut oil, which is often touted as being fairly easy to wash out.

To me, adding a wax to this deodorant recipe seems to be a big step in the wrong direction. Waxes don't wash out easily and I'm quite concerned they will build up in fabric without strict attention to pretreating.

I think the better way to go if one wants to improve the texture and melt point of the deo is to look at emulsifiers and thickeners normally used in lotions -- ingredients that are more soluble in water and less likely to build up and stain fabric.

edit: Just to be clear for those who might not know, e-wax (emulsifying wax) is an emulsifier, despite the poor choice of name. It is not a wax in the sense that candelilla and beeswax are waxes.

My husband used to get horribly painful cysts under his pits as well. I don't know how he survived the pain and eventual draining that would occur before he finally agreed to go see a doctor about it. We were just dating at the time. Anyway, for him the problem was two-fold: skin-tight shirts and antiperspirants. Once he stopped using antiperspirants and tossed out the t-shirts that were so damn tight and started wearing only shirts that allowed some air-flow, the problem stopped recurring. A course of antibiotics and frequent showers were also in order to clear it up, but it was ending the antiperspirants and increasing the opportunity for air-flow to the underarms that prevented repeat occurrences.

 

[Dahila]

Thank you DeeAnna, that's awesome explanation. I am still working on mine, I have that small containers right now my MH is 40% and it seems to be still very effective and stays nice and dry on skin. I will try to add some cetyl to see how it work, will report. Right now I am comparing 4 of them
earlene the story is a proof that we are exposed to so much not so friendly chemicals, eh, I even make my own all purpose cleaning solution, cause my asthma is acting up with commercial ones........

 

[Gaisy59]

Ok so my husband and i are driving to Grand Forks North Dakota for the weekend and we are talking about the babassu/magnesium deodorant and how well it works. He asks me what is in it and i tell him after which there is this big silence and he says "i thought you wanted to stay away from aluminum in your products?" I said its not aluminum its magnesium to which he replied its a derivative of aluminum. And nowww im upset. Plus i just ordered two 1kg bags of magnesium which i intend to use regardless. Anyone want to jump in here with a) ease :cry::cry:my qualms or b) another new formula with babassu and without magnesium lol

 

[earlene]

Ok so my husband and i are driving to Grand Forks North Dakota for the weekend and we are talking about the babassu/magnesium deodorant and how well it works. He asks me what is in it and i tell him after which there is this big silence and he says "i thought you wanted to stay away from aluminum in your products?" I said its not aluminum its magnesium to which he replied its a derivative of aluminum. And nowww im upset. Plus i just ordered two 1kg bags of magnesium which i intend to use regardless. Anyone want to jump in here with a) ease :cry::cry:my qualms or b) another new formula with babassu and without magnesium lol

As I recall, on the period chart, Magnesium stands alone. It can become part of an alloy, but that does not make it a derivative of the other metals in the alloy.

More about magnesium: https://www.livescience.com/28862-magnesium.html

 

[DeeAnna]

"...[magnesium is a] derivative of aluminum..."

No, no, no. Hubby needs to take a chemistry class. Yes, it is true that magnesium is a metal and aluminum is a metal. BUT they aren't the same metal at all.

Look at the periodic table of the elements and find these two metals (#12 and #13). The abbreviation Mg stands for magnesium and Al stands for aluminum. Are they in the same square on this chart? Nope. They have different atomic structures, which is why they don't occupy the same square, and that means they aren't the same thing at all.

And it's important also to not leap overboard about the aluminum-in-deodorant myths. If you don't want to use antiperspirant, then don't. But do so while appreciating the facts, not buying into alarmist theories. More: http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/features/antiperspirant-facts-safety#1

"...Plus i just ordered two 1kg bags of magnesium..."

And on top of that we're also talking about magnesium HYDROXIDE in this deodorant, not magnesium the metal. Gotta get the chemistry straight!

 

[earlene]

I am happy to report that my deodorant stick did NOT melt at all even though sitting upside down all damn day inside the hot trunk of my car in Carbondale, IL during the Celestial SuperBowl (Total Eclipse event) at the Southern Illinois University. I purposely did not use the cooler because it was a test to see how well beeswax would work at keeping this deo stick solid in my normal traveling conditions.

I put the deo stick into a plastic baggie and sealed it up tight, of course, then placed it top side down into my luggage so that if it did melt the melt would end up in the screw-on cap and not under the roll-up bottom end (harder to clean, in my experience). It stayed that way for several hours. When we checked into our hotel last night (a different hotel than the night before, otherwise the deodorant would still have been in a hotel room and not in the trunk of my car), the first thing I checked was my deodorant. It was quite warm as the inside of the car was well over 100° F when we came back to it in the middle of the day. In spite of the heat, the deo stick remained solid with no visual evidence of melting. I am thrilled.

Now that I know that, I may or may not use an e-wax, but I probably will because the beeswax is rather draggy on my skin. Still, I could probably reduce the beeswax some and improve glide, too, without having to compromise the non-melt issue. But in the meantime, until the next formula change I can safely say this is perfect for hot travel conditions. It's at 8% of the formula now; I could try reducing it by 2% increments and re-test for hot-car travel conditions as needed.

Here is a photo of the stick this morning, showing the discoloration of the Dragon's Blood as well as the solidity post-hot-car travel.

 

[Soaps_and_more]

This sounds really great.
There is something called Cera Bellina out there. Its some kind of modified beeswax, I quickly googled this, but there is ton of other sites out there

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/cera-bellina.html

Its much softer than beeswax. I actually have it. Its great. Maybe you want to give it a try.

I use it in my deo, because the drag of beeswax (which I adore for many reasons) is not so nice under the arms

 

[Dahila]

cera belina is great but much softer than beeswax, and who knows in high concentration it could be draggy too, you would need to use at least 20% to get the same hardness ( :twisted: ) as beeswax
I love Cera belina and I use in all my balms

 

[Soaps_and_more]

Thank you Dahlia (2.000 posts! Wow! Congratulations ).

I should have probably said: replace some of the beeswax with Cera Bellina. Alone it is too soft, but together with beeswax you can get a softer consistency for your deo stick.

 

[Dahila]

Thank you Dahlia (2.000 posts! Wow! Congratulations ).

I should have probably said: replace some of the beeswax with Cera Bellina. Alone it is too soft, but together with beeswax you can get a softer consistency for your deo stick.

Thanks, It took 4 years, I had not even noticed
I do not like the one with beeswax or cera belina, I use like many people here Emulsifying wax

 

[dibbles]

I know I'm pretty late to this endeavor, but I finally gave it a try. I don't mind finger application, but what I don't like is how hard it is. We did have a cool August (when it was made), but here there is really only a couple of months in the year when it could be warm enough to potentially soften the babassu to easily get it out of the jar.

My mix was 60% babassu/40% Mg(Oh)2. I'm thinking of trying to do a stick type next, and was wondering if anyone had formed an opinion on e-wax or cetyl alcohol added in for glide. Or any ideas on making it a bit softer for my next try? I'm not likely to remember to set my little jar in hot water to soften before I shower.

 

[DeeAnna]

I used BTMS and cetyl alcohol along with babassu and cut the Mag hydroxide content (see post 336). It stays firm and not very glidy even at typical Iowa summer temperatures. We've had temps in the 80s and low 90s F while I've been using this batch. I'm nearly certain e-wax will function about the same as BTMS in this application.

 

[dibbles]

I used BTMS and cetyl alcohol along with babassu and cut the Mag hydroxide content (see post 336). It stays firm and not very glidy even at typical Iowa summer temperatures. We've had temps in the 80s and low 90s F while I've been using this batch. I'm nearly certain e-wax will function about the same as BTMS in this application.

Thank you DeeAnna. I have BTMS, so I can try that in a twist up deo container. Any recommendation of how much to use of each as a starting point - 1%, 2% - more? I don't mind testing to figure out what I like, but a guideline to begin with would be so helpful.