Snowqueen
Member
My cold process soap is crumbling when I cut it after 48 hrs. Does it need to cure longer or is this a chemistry or temperature problem? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Crumbling when cut
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More than likely you've cut it too late. Crumbly soaps are usually too hard, and so you possibly should have cut it in 12 - 18 hours. However, it could be a recipe problem and I've often found that when i don't gel my soap that it goes crumbly too. What was your recipe?
artemis
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Seems like we've had several conversations about this recently. Try searching the forum for "crumbling."
I agree I think you waited too long. Depending on your recipe and if you gel or not soaps can generally be cut at 18-24 hours tops. Not gelling soap could take longer as well as one with high liquid oils that don't gel.
It's a very pretty soap though.
It's a very pretty soap though.
Snowqueen
Member
thank you so much for your time!
My recipe is:
3.3 oz Cocoa Butter
8.3 oz Coconut Oil
13.2 oz olive oil
8.3 oz Palm oil
4.6 oz Lye
9.8 oz distilled water
2.17 oz lavender essential oil
2 tsp sodium lactate
i used sunflower oil to disperse the colors, 1 tablespoon for the titanium dioxide and less for the other colors.
*oils were 100 degrees and lye at 105 degrees whenI mixed them...any advice on gelling the soap. I did insulate with cardboard on top and a thick towels but underneath the mold was sitting on a metal tray.
I'll add this to the good advice the others are giving you --
I try to cut when my soap feels like mild cheddar cheese or gouda. Not soft like cold cream cheese or brie, but not hard like parmesan or aged cheddar. It's like making bread -- you have to do the next step when the soap (or bread) is ready, not go strictly by time.
A knife has a triangular shape that wedges the soap apart. This can cause breakage in a firm soap. Instead try using a flat cutter like a bench scraper (pastry cutter) or wire cheese cutter.
I sometimes think titanium dioxide can make soap a little harder and more brittle especially if it's used freely. It looks like you had more trouble cutting the ivory lower part than the upper layers. Is there something that's a little different about that lower layer than the pink and gray parts?
I try to cut when my soap feels like mild cheddar cheese or gouda. Not soft like cold cream cheese or brie, but not hard like parmesan or aged cheddar. It's like making bread -- you have to do the next step when the soap (or bread) is ready, not go strictly by time.
A knife has a triangular shape that wedges the soap apart. This can cause breakage in a firm soap. Instead try using a flat cutter like a bench scraper (pastry cutter) or wire cheese cutter.
I sometimes think titanium dioxide can make soap a little harder and more brittle especially if it's used freely. It looks like you had more trouble cutting the ivory lower part than the upper layers. Is there something that's a little different about that lower layer than the pink and gray parts?
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Snowqueen
Member
Those first cuts, that crumbled were made with a knife after about 36 hours after pouring...then I waited another 8 hours and it sliced nicely with a wire cutter. It does not appear to have gelled...comments. Picture below
If you covered your soap with cardboard and towels, assume it gelled. I really can't see the soap well enough to tell, but those colors (very nice swirl, BTW) are popping.
Your base oil/lye recipe is fine. I have never used TD, so I am no help there.
I would have checked the firmness of the soap at about 15-18 hours. If it didn't dent at medium pressure, I would have cut. wire cutters cause much fewer problems than knives. That's why they are so popular. I would rather cut a bit early than late and have all the other issues. You can stop cutting one cut too early, but once it is too hard, it is just too late to fix.
Your base oil/lye recipe is fine. I have never used TD, so I am no help there.
I would have checked the firmness of the soap at about 15-18 hours. If it didn't dent at medium pressure, I would have cut. wire cutters cause much fewer problems than knives. That's why they are so popular. I would rather cut a bit early than late and have all the other issues. You can stop cutting one cut too early, but once it is too hard, it is just too late to fix.
Ladka
Well-Known Member
My 45 % tallow soap also crumbled when I cut it with a knife at 42 hrs. It was not too hard/dry but rather soft.
Besides, it also stuck to moulds, even the silicone one.
Besides, it also stuck to moulds, even the silicone one.
I have found that Sodium Lactate gives that particular type of shearing crumble, especially prominent when using a knife. how interesting that the wire made such a big difference! I guess thats what they mean when they say , "In the end, it was down to the wire!" ...? LOL
Comments: GORGEOUS!
I don't have a wire cutter so i always use a knife. But luckily you do so that ended well. I done;t use cocoa butter anymore but I seem to recall that can add to the crumble if too much is used?
I had this problem with my first cucumber soap. Turns out it was the titanium dioxide that caused it. You may want to mix 1 tsp PPO especially when you are adding TD to other colors. For some reason it makes the soap hard and very brittle.
Snowqueen
Member
Thank you so much for the advice, I will try cutting the soap sooner. Initially I had used a knife which was tearing the soap and I switched to a cheese cutter to salvage the rest of the loaf.
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If it's a knife that's angled that was probably an issue too. Cheese cutter it perfect though.
I've had that happen to me a few times. Once I accidentally used too much sodium lactate, the other times it's been related to TD. One time I tried an ombre effect using TD and withing 5-6 hours the lighter parts of the soap were rock hard and crumbly. I couldn't save that batch, so now I keep a closer eye when using a lot of TD and cut way sooner.
Oh i just noticed that you used a whopping 1 tablespoon TD. That is rather a lot!
Snowqueen
Member
How much TD would you recommend if the white part is about 2/3 of the loaf? And how much carrier oil?(i used sunflower oil as the carrier)
I may have spoken out of turn there - I'm not a big user of TD so I'm not really an expert. I do use it quite frequently but in much smaller amounts - about a teaspoon of TD (water dispersable) to 800g oils. I tend to let the soap do what it will do with the base colour, so rather than trying to colour it white I let it be 'ivory' or 'creme', although I help it along a bit with small quantities of TD.
Maybe someone else who uses larger amounts can advise about the crumbliness of using larger quantities.
I also found that adding more TD didn't necessarily whiten it, but tended to increase white spots and glycerin rivers, and seemed to shrink the final quantity of soap. Check manufacturers recommendations for usage percentages, as not all TD's are created equal.
Definitely found using a knife seems to make it crumble. Especially the way the knife broadens up the blade, puts pressure on an already brittle soap, no matter how gently its cut.
