Cream Soap Calculator

[cmzaha]

It would be so great if someone designed a Cream Soap Calc. It just makes it so much easier. I have always used the Summer Bee Meadow Calculator, but not sure if they are working on upgrades or what. Summer bee Meadow has a new site but it is not working.

 

[VanAshwood]

What is a cream soap? I’m not familiar with it?

 

[cmzaha]

Here is a video link from soaping 101. It is a soap that is soft and can be whipped

 

[Alan M.]

Do you know all the calculations?

 

[cmzaha]

I can work it out. I can post a few links later tonight to some that are already made. The best one is located at the summer bee meadow link above, but appears to be down. It worked today when I tried it until I hit the calculate button it threw an error and went down again.

 

[Alan M.]

That would be really helpful!

 

[VanAshwood]

Thanks so much! That looks really interesting!

 

[DeeAnna]

You can do cream soap recipes on any soap calculator that lets you create "dual lye" or "hybrid" recipes, meaning recipes that use both KOH and NaOH. Soapee.com is one example as well as the venerable Summer Bee Meadow calc.

Here are some guidelines I've been working on for awhile for developing cream soap recipes. I'm not an expert cream soap maker, so I based these recommendations on a variety of cream soap recipes from reputable sources as well as discussions with a few cream soap makers. I hope Carolyn (cmzaha) and other cream soap makers will let me know if I'm off base with any of my advice -- I reserve the right to correct and update this information. Here goes --

Set the KOH at 80% of the total alkali. The KOH ranges from 75% to 80% in the recipes I evaluated, with 80% being most common.

NaOH makes up the rest of the total alkali. In other words, the combined KOH and NaOH percentages must equal 100%.
​

Be sure to also set the KOH purity to the correct value for your product. If you do not know the purity, choose 90% as being a typical purity setting.

Set lye concentration at 15% (water:lye ratio of 6.7). Lye concentrations in recipes I looked at range from 10% (water:lye 9.0) to 25% (water:lye 4.0), with 15% being the most common. Important: Use lye concentration or water:lye ratio for best results. Do not use "water as % of oils".

Set lye discount (superfat) at 15%. Range is 7% to 23% with the most common being 15%.

Choose fats and stearic acid to get the fatty acid profile of the recipe within these ranges --

Combined stearic and palmitic acids should equal 50% to 60% of the total fatty acids. Range is 50% to 70%, with 61% being the average.

Soap will be softer and may gradually separate if these fatty acids are below 50%. Soap will be firmer and may lather poorly if above 70%. Good sources of these fatty acids: lard, palm, tallow, butters (shea, cocoa, etc.), and stearic acid.​

Combined lauric and myristic should be about 15% of the total. Range is 7% to 17%, with 13% being the average.

Coconut, palm kernel, babassu.​

Ricinoleic acid at 0% to 5% of the total. Range is 0% to 8%, with 5% being the most common.

Castor oil. Not required, but many recipes include it.​

Oleic acid for most of the balance.

Olive oil, high oleic oils (HO sunflower, HO safflower, HO canola), sweet almond, etc.​

Combined linoleic and linolenic acids should be low to minimize the chance of rancidity. Range is 2% to 12% with the average being 4%.​

Stearic acid "supercream" at 2% based on the weight of fats + stearic acid used to make the base soap. Range is 0% to 5%.

Supercream is basically a thickener and texture modifier. More supercream gives a firmer texture, adds a waxy skin feel, and may be more drying to skin. Less supercream gives a softer texture, and the soap may possibly be more prone to eventual separation.​

Glycerin at 30% based on the weight of fats + stearic acid used to make the base soap. Range is 0% to 30%, with 30% being the most common.

This glycerin is in addition to the glycerin produced by saponification. It should be added along with the supercream after saponification. It is a processing aid (makes mixing and whipping easier) and a texture modifier.​

 

[cmzaha]

I know, but I am lazy. Summer Bee calc does it all automatically!! I type in my oils and it does the rest. no, I will take back the lazy, just not enough time with taking care of the parents. They are progressing into become harder.

 

[DeeAnna]

My reply was more for Keith, although I was hoping you might give some feedback. But I certainly understand about dealing with life's real troubles and not sweating the small stuff. This thread is definitely small potatoes. Fugeddaboutit.

My mom is declining too, but I don't think she is as poorly as your parents ... yet. I can see the day might come, however, and I'm dreading that.

 

[Clarice]

Stearic acid "supercream" at 2% based on the weight of fats + stearic acid used to make the base soap. Range is 0% to 5%.
Supercream is basically a thickener and texture modifier. More supercream gives a firmer texture, adds a waxy skin feel, and may be more drying to skin. Less supercream gives a softer texture, and the soap may possibly be more prone to eventual separation.

Deanna (and all CS experts)

thank you for this super informative post

I have a couple of Qs:

I have made two soaps which were called cream soaps by their authors. The PDF below outlines the recipes and percentages.

In addition to having rather different oil profiles, the biggest differences I can see between them are:

Recipe One vs Recipe Two

• no "superfatting" stage
• Significantly lower percent of total oil weight of both Stearic Acid and Glycerine

I have a couple of questions:

Is recipe number one a true Cream Soap?

Regarding recipe number two -

• I would like to reduce the Stearic Acid to make this feel less waxy. You note that less in the superfatting stage will help with this - can I reduce it in the first part of the recipe too?
• Is there a hybrid calculator that will allow me to play with the percents? I tried the SBM one, and was not successful

In general - how long do you allow the CS base to rest before starting to whip it up and use it in various recipes?

Thank you so much - You are all so much help to me!

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm an engineer who likes to research soapy questions and I have the chemistry background to figure out why things work the way they do. I've also made a couple batches of cream soap to see what all the fuss is about. That doesn't make me an expert; I'm just passing on info from my studies and modest experience.

I'm going to take a pass on critiquing the recipes. I suggest you first look at the fatty acid profile first to get some idea whether a recipe works as a cream soap recipe. I gave guidelines in my Post #6 to evaluate the recipes for yourself, and I think I make a good point in that post that a high % of stearic and palmitic acids are key to a particular cream soap recipe producing a stable, whippable cream soap. Experience is the proof of the pudding, however, not my advice. You should try small batches with various recipes and see what you think.

My personal experience is, yes, cream soap is waxy feeling. I suspect you can reduce the waxiness to some degree, but I honestly doubt you can eliminate it and still have the other qualities that allow a cream soap to be a cream soap. With enough water, high oleic soap tends to have a slimy, ropy texture, high lauric-myristic soap has a thin watery texture, and high stearic-palmitic soap has a waxy, stringy texture. Reduce the fatty acids enough to get rid of the waxy, stringy quality and you no longer have a stable cream soap.

I think cream soap looks a lot more yummy than how it feels, but bear in mind I don't have boatloads of personal experience with cream soap. What I have noticed is many people who do make cream soap a fair bit are using it as a base for making other products, such as scrubs.

 

[Clarice]

Soapmakingfriend.com - seriously ROCKS

I plugged the numbers of recipe two into the calc (screen shot)

I have a couple Qs:

1. When entering Stearic Acid do i put BOTH the SA from phase one and phase two (superfatting phase)
2. Is there a "superfatting phase" section that I missed? As I understand it - in both HP soap and cream soap, the process allows you to add the SF oil of choice after the initial cook - whereby in CP you cannot "choose" the oil which you wish to superfat.
3. I don't see "glycerin" in the additives? Perhaps I missed?

Whoever made this calculator - WOW - super friendly input and output. Really like it!

 

[baylee]

Glycerin at 30% based on the weight of fats + stearic acid used to make the base soap. Range is 0% to 30%, with 30% being the most common.

This glycerin is in addition to the glycerin produced by saponification. It should be added along with the supercream after saponification. It is a processing aid (makes mixing and whipping easier) and a texture modifier.​

Thank you so much for all your information given DeeAnna. I am a bit confused on the glycerin. Is the 30% glycerin subtracted from the lye water being used? I'm wanting to make a 'chunky' paste to use at a later date to make products such sugar scrubs and body wash etc. Would I wait to add the glycerin when I make the final product? I hope this makes sense. TIA

 

[DeeAnna]

@baylee -- No, it's not subtracted from the water as you might do when making liquid soap paste.

The glycerin in cream soap is in addition to the water used to make the soap. It's usually added after the soap is done as a processing aid -- it helps to loosen and soften the paste, make the paste easier to add the "supercream" stearic acid, and make the whole mess easier to mix.

I suppose it could theoretically be added up front before saponification, but you'll lose the benefit of having some liquid to help you later.

When entering Stearic Acid do i put BOTH the SA from phase one and phase two (superfatting phase)

Don't confuse the superfat in the soap calculations with the stearic acid added as supercream. They're not the same thing.

The supercream stearic acid doesn't turn into soap. It's a thickener, just like you might use stearic acid in a lotion. It's not included in the lye calculations.

Is there a "superfatting phase" section that I missed?...

As I said in Post #8, "set lye discount (superfat) at 15%. Range is 7% to 23% with the most common being 15%." Don't worry about doing the fancy HP superfat thing. Just let the lye do its thing.

I don't see "glycerin" in the additives? Perhaps I missed?

I don't use the calc you're using, so I have no idea. Many calcs aren't set up for cream soap. If this one isn't, I'd calculate the glycerin weight by hand and write it in.