CP: Does temperature matter? (lye/oils)

[Jayne]

So I've spent a lot of time watching tutorials over the last month. A lot of my "basic" information has come from the soap queen tutorials. They've been really good for basic information. One thing that is stressed in every single video is making sure that the lye water and the oils are within 10 degrees of each other.

Does this really matter? I'm trying to decide if it is worth spending $30 to get a temperature gun. The reality is I'm not going to continue with the thermometer I have. It's too much hassle. Yet I've seen some posts on here from experienced soapers who say they don't, and have never, checked the temperature other than making sure their oils are clear and touch testing the lye water on the side.

$30 is a lot of money for me right now. I'm loving soaping so I'll give something up (ie, I'll buy no oils and no soap for a few weeks) if it is necessary but now I'm confused.

 

[snappyllama]

When I first got started I was really careful to make sure my temps were within range... I think we must have been watching the same videos.

Now I just estimate it. I start out by making my lye water and then melting my hard oils. I add my soft oils (unheated) to the melted oils. Then I get the rest of my ingredients together, figure out my colors, do a little cleanup, and stare off into space for about 10 minutes. By then everything is around 80-90 F. I don't bother with my temp gun anymore.

The reason why they are saying that... If you soap too hot, your batter will trace much faster - making it hard to get a nice pour (dependent on other factors like fragrance/recipe/soap fairies). If you soap too cool, you can get false trace (you think everything has been combined to emulsification - but it's just your hard oils resolidifying and then your batch separates after pouring).

Long story short... if you're making soap without gremlins without a temp gun... I wouldn't bother with it.

 

[penelopejane]

For high OO soaps or if you are going to CPOP I find a temperature gun very helpful to avoid stearic spots and to get the oven to the right temp.
It doesn’t matter that the oils and lye are within 10* of one another. The temp of the overall mix is what is important to get gel and avoid stearic spots in some mixes.

Also I use the temp gun to check that my soap has reached room temp before I unmold them to avoid ash. It sort of makes soaping fun! And it helps get consistent results for me. Get one from Ali express or eBay for $10 USD

 

[earlene]

If cost is an issue, I would forego the Infrared Thermometer gun. I do like mine and use it most days, but for me it's more of a safety net than an absolute necessity.

You can feel by touching the outer surface of the bowl containing your oils and the outer surface of the lye container if they are within a reasonable temperature range of each other or if they are too hot to handle.

If you ever are concerned about your oven temperature not reading correctly when you CPOP (I do because I have experienced oven malfunctions in the past, so I remain diligent about that), then you can always buy an oven thermometer that hangs from the rack for a much more reasonable price (around $3.00 more or less, depending on where you go.)

So, as I said, although I really like mine and use it most days, it is really not necessary.

 

[lsg]

For what it is worth, I prepare my lye water first, then melt the solid butters or oils and mix them with the liquid oils. I can tell by touching the side of the container holding the mixed oils if it is too hot. If it is just slightly warm, I figure it is OK to use. If my lye water looks fairly clear, I add it to the oils and stick blend. I have been using this method for several years with success. Keep in mind, I don't usually do elaborate swirls, just in the pot, etc.

 

[Jayne]

Thanks everyone! Seems it is something I can buy later if I need it.

Unless I do CPOP. What is CPOP?

 

[Misschief]

I'll chime in here, too. I don't own a infrared thermometer and I have no intention of purchasing one. I do have an instant read thermometer I love. I don't often check the temps of my lye mixture or my oil mix. If I can comfortably hold my hand on the outside of my stainless steel bowls and they feel about the same, I go ahead.

The only time I use my thermometer is when I'm making any kind of milk soap. I prefer to soap cooler with those.

 

[BattleGnome]

Totally understand the money thing: don’t know if this is applicable to you but it has saved me a ton of hassle.

Don’t be afraid to ask for the non-specific things for birthdays/Christmas. My mom gets super annoyed that her grown up children can afford themselves and don’t ask her to buy clothes or anything anymore. My dad can spend a few weeks searching for a good sale on a temp gun, gram scale, or whatever while my mom gets to feel like she’s contributing to my life/interests like she did when I lived under her roof.

 

[DeeAnna]

CPOP -- cold process, oven process.

There are several ways of doing CPOP, but the way that works best for most people is to preheat your oven to no more than about 145 F (60 C). My oven has a "keep warm" setting at 145 F (60 C), so I just preheat to that temp.

Other people may prefer lower temps for CPOP -- I think Irish Lass shoots for about 110 F (43 C). And others have older stoves that cannot preheat low enough -- many ovens won't preheat to anything less than 170 F (75 C). In that case, use a timed method of preheating -- turn the oven on like you were going to bake something, set a timer for 2-3 minutes, and turn the oven off after the timer buzzes.

After the preheat, however you do it, turn off the oven and put your soap in the oven. Leave it in the oven for a few hours or overnight to saponify.

I don't use an infrared temperature gun for soaping. I sometimes check the temperature of my soap batter with an instant read thermometer, but that's for curiosity's sake. My main temperature sensor is my hands -- if the soap pot feels gently warm to the touch, it's fine.

 

[toxikon]

Nope, I remember watching those Soap Queen videos too and painstakingly trying to get my lye solution and melted oils to 110 degrees at the same time. Sad times...

Now I find the easiest thing to do is:

Make lye solution in advance (or masterbatch) and give it plenty of time to reach room temperature. Sometimes I'll make my lye solution first thing in the morning, go do some errands or housework, then actually start making my soap 3-4 hours later.

So generally, my lye solution is 70-80 degrees and my melted oils are around 100-110 degrees (melt hard oils then add RT soft soils and let it sit until a bit cooler).

These temperatures give me the perfect amount of time to make nice designs.

Then I generally gently CPOP by setting my oven to 145 degrees while I soapmake, then turning it off and putting my poured soap inside for a few hours.

 

[penelopejane]

Here’s one for $6.68 USD free shipping (real free shipping - no minimum order).

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32838...00_0109&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.32838621987

 

[Jayne]

Thanks all. CPOP sounds like something I'll leave till I'm a bit more experienced. Or I have an easier oven to use.

 

[IrishLass]

I use a Thermapen instant-read thermometer. My wonderful hubby bought it for me for Christmas one year. They are pricey, but I use mine for more than soaping, and it has more than earned its keep.

I'm a temp-taker when I soap because of the kinds of fats I use in my formulas (the kind that cause stearic spots if I soap too cool) along with the specific lye concentration I use (33% or higher), and the fact that I like to fully gel all my soaps, which is tricky to achieve with a 33% or higher lye concentration if the temp of my batter goes too low.

Once my soap is poured, I CPOP it a preheated 110F oven to encourage full gel. My oven does not have a specific preheat/pre-set for 110F, but it does have a handy digital readout display that shows me how hot the oven is getting as it is warming up once I turn it on. As soon as it reaches 110 I turn it off, which only takes a mere 3 minutes with my oven, then place my soap inside for an overnight stay (I normally soap at night before bed).


IrishLass

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks all. CPOP sounds like something I'll leave till I'm a bit more experienced. Or I have an easier oven to use.

CPOP is just a method of keeping the micro environment around the molded soap at a cozy temperature that helps it saponify and gel. It isn't difficult to do. Follow Irish Lass's instructions, put your soap in a cardboard box, wrap it in an old towel or blanket and you won't go wrong.

CPOPing your soap means it will have a brighter colour and that you will be able to unmold your soap earlier than without CPOPing.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Here’s one for $6.68 USD free shipping (real free shipping - no minimum order).

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32838...00_0109&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.32838621987

Won't help the OP in Australia, but for others Harbor Freight (US) and Princess Auto (Canada) usually have IR guns for about ten bucks.

 

[Misschief]

Won't help the OP in Australia, but for others Harbor Freight (US) and Princess Auto (Canada) usually have IR guns for about ten bucks.

Good to know.. there's a Princess Auto very near my work.

 

[jcandleattic]

I personally don't take temps, and never have. I soap at RT with both my lye and oils. Sometimes if my oils are slushy (like they get in the winter time) I zap them in the microwave for about 30-45 seconds until they are clear, and then soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

My goal is to make soap with the initial batter temp under 110 F (45 C). I've checked the actual temperature and compared that with my "hand temperature."

I've learned that "pleasantly warm" to the palm of my hand is around 95 to 105 F, and usually closer to 95-100 F. YMMV on what's pleasantly warm, but I'm guessing a lot of other people have a similar perception of warmth on the palm vs. the measured temperature.

Around 95 F, my lard is not fully melted and the fats look hazy or milky. That's a good visual indicator of borderline too cool for me. I prefer my soap to gel and need the batter to start a bit warmer than 95 F to get to gel temperatures. "Distinctly more than pleasantly warm" is above 110 F.

More and more, I use my palm to check the temp, but there's no harm in checking with my instant read thermometer if there's any question in my mind. If I haven't made soap for awhile, I usually do measure the temperature just because I'm a little rusty.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I have two lazer guns, neither of which I found accurate or easy to use -- i.e. "aim at 14" from the surface of the oils or lye." I currently use a digital thermometer with a 12" stainless probe. I soap pretty much like Irish Lass does and always take temps because of the variety of soaps I make and process methods I use. I rarely CPOP but when I do, I preheat my oven to its lowest temp, stick my batch in, turn the over off and leave the soap to do its thing and cool down overnight. NOTE: This eliminates the need for a "draft free" place and insulating the batch.

As a Newbie, I would recommend buying a thermometer with a stainless probe -- and follow recommended temps at first-- until you get a feel for the difference between soaping different combos of fats, oils, butters, etc. I've never experienced DOS or soda ash. I think paying attention to temps is largely responsible for that, as well as the % of water discount and lye discount.

 

[Soapmaker123]

Temperature control is important in soap making. Get the little IR thermometer from Harborfreight Tools. $11.99 -- cheap!

https://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-pocket-thermometer-93983.html