Coronavirus

[gww]

earlene
Believe it or not I tried that. I do have a sticky button on my laptop that goes through spells of having to be hit just perfect. I did go back and edit that post after reading your response and it did work this time. Thank you.
Cheers
gww

 

[cerelife]

If essential workers like healthcare, fire & police refuse to vaccinate and thus place others at risk of serious longterm illness or death due to covid19, I'm quite comfortable with their jobs being available instead to workers who will vaccinate & put others' lives first.

With all due respect @paradisi - We essential workers have been putting others' lives first since the onset of this pandemic. I'm a CT tech in a large hospital and as such I've been on the front line for Covid cases from the very beginning since CT is the preferred modality for imaging Covid patients. We were scared to death EVERY. SINGLE. DAY because no one was really sure how it was transmitted/how long the virus survived in the air or on surfaces/etc.
But we showed up, suited up, and took care of our patients even though we were terrified of getting infected - or even worse - bringing the virus home to our families.
We've worked nonstop through the pandemic while others got paid to stay home.
I don't even know how to put into words how (mentally and physically) exhausted we are from constantly being vigilant against spreading this virus.
In an 8-hour shift during the height of the virus; I had to suit up in full PPE on a daily average of at least 10 times. And then sanitize every surface in my CT suite while still in full PPE before I could take care of myself.
This has been terrifying and traumatic and there isn't enough money in the universe to pay us for what we've gone through to take care of our patients during these unprecedented times.
All of this to say that your statement is incredibly insulting to those of us who have put not only our lives - but also our family's lives - on the line long before there was a vaccine available.
I personally am fully vaccinated, but you do realize that vaccinated people can still contract Covid and spread it to others, right? And since we may be asymptomatic, that makes us a little more dangerous.
But by all means, fire all of the essential workers who refuse to be vaccinated with an experimental vaccine. I'm glad you're "quite comfortable" with that.
My apologies if I'm not so comfortable with this opinion that seems to be growing in popularity in social media. We need help and I'll be happy to add a link to our hospital group's Human Resource "Available Jobs" page for anyone with this mindset who wants to come be exposed to Covid everyday with us.

 

[Susie]

cmzaha
I agree with the finding better treatments but thought I would add a fun fact to the rest.
George Washington did mandate his whole force to try and be immunized in secret during the war that started the building of our nation.
Cheers
gww
https://www.wral.com/fact-check-did-george-washington-mandate-vaccines-for-his-army/19807935/

History of Smallpox - CDC
https://www.cdc.gov › smallpox › history › history



Feb 20, 2021 — The basis for vaccination began in 1796 when the English doctor Edward Jenner noticed that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox were protected from ...

With all due respect @paradisi - We essential workers have been putting others' lives first since the onset of this pandemic. I'm a CT tech in a large hospital and as such I've been on the front line for Covid cases from the very beginning since CT is the preferred modality for imaging Covid patients. We were scared to death EVERY. SINGLE. DAY because no one was really sure how it was transmitted/how long the virus survived in the air or on surfaces/etc.
But we showed up, suited up, and took care of our patients even though we were terrified of getting infected - or even worse - bringing the virus home to our families.
We've worked nonstop through the pandemic while others got paid to stay home.
I don't even know how to put into words how (mentally and physically) exhausted we are from constantly being vigilant against spreading this virus.
In an 8-hour shift during the height of the virus; I had to suit up in full PPE on a daily average of at least 10 times. And then sanitize every surface in my CT suite while still in full PPE before I could take care of myself.
This has been terrifying and traumatic and there isn't enough money in the universe to pay us for what we've gone through to take care of our patients during these unprecedented times.
All of this to say that your statement is incredibly insulting to those of us who have put not only our lives - but also our family's lives - on the line long before there was a vaccine available.
I personally am fully vaccinated, but you do realize that vaccinated people can still contract Covid and spread it to others, right? And since we may be asymptomatic, that makes us a little more dangerous.
But by all means, fire all of the essential workers who refuse to be vaccinated with an experimental vaccine. I'm glad you're "quite comfortable" with that.
My apologies if I'm not so comfortable with this opinion that seems to be growing in popularity in social media. We need help and I'll be happy to add a link to our hospital group's Human Resource "Available Jobs" page for anyone with this mindset who wants to come be exposed to Covid everyday with us.

^^^^^This!!!!

Repeat this millions of times over for all of the companies who are forced to mandate vaccines just because they do business in one way or another with the government. Add to that all of the first responders that every one of our lives depend upon. Then, once all of those people decide to stop going to work, what exactly are you going to do when YOU, God forbid, need one of them?

 

[gww]

Susie
If a shot has been taken by billions of people and has proven to be pretty risk free, then it is most likely not still experimental. If there is data that shows some benefit with very little risk then the choice becomes more of a do the right thing or wrong thing. Under these types of situations and taking into fact, let say something like after the mandate in New York police mandate where 92 percent of the police have taken it, should we look up to the 8 percent that are out layers? Is not taking a safe thing that gives some help not kind of a funny thing to hang your hat on and become a hill to die on?

People are funny and most are not all good or all bad. They should be praised and given credit for the good things they do but having did one good thing should not be a license to do bad things. You should get credit for all you do.

My belief is that I have more freedom with the least amount of responsibility but if it were my job that gave me the responsibility over the safety of others and I may be the one who is involved with policy that effects safety, I would more have to look at the data and what is safest to meet my added responsibilities.

If someone decides they would rather not do a public job rather then take a shot, I could not fault that decision. However, if they had small pox and wanted to go to a movie in a crowded theater, their decision should not be honored because it would be a purely selfish decision regardless of any adverse effect that it had on others. Now if that person decided to wear a bright green shirt and pink pants and tin foil on his head and go to that same movie, it would be a personal decision that does not effect anyone else and should be his to rightly make.

Cheers
gww
Ps I loved your participation in the big liquid soap threads on this site and it gave me the confidence to make two batches so far.

 

[AliOop]

@gww the issue is that not everyone agrees that the vaccines are safe; that they are necessary for those with natural immunity; or that mandating them will actually provide greater protection than not.

Thus, it isn’t a matter of these first responders willingly exposing people to danger, but a belief that they are NOT doing so - based on the sources of scientific information that they find credible. You may not agree with those sources, but that’s the reasoned decision each of us faces daily on a multitude of issues.

I find it disturbing and sad that instead of believing the best about these true heroes of our nation, so many are quick to discard them because they have made reasoned decisions based on all they have seen and experienced - not to mention their own medical training.

I personally would rather risk potential contact with COVID than risk not having a police officer, firefighter, or medical professional available when I need them.

You may feel differently, but that doesn’t give the government the right to force that shortage upon me because of their decision that the risk is covid is worse than the risk of rising violent crime, the possibility of my house burning down, or the chance that I may have no EMT to get me out of that car crash or treat me on the way to the hospital.

Not to mention that should we make it to the hospital, we will languish bc there is no one there to put us back together. Or God forbid, treat us for covid.

 

[Basil]

The docs told Jessica’s family that she cannot survive due to lung scarring, and they need to discuss taking her off life support. Family members are not in agreement about whether or when to do this.

I've been behind on this. I'm so sorry @AliOop. We have had two members in our family who've been on ventilators and have had to make this decision. It's very difficult and I'm so sorry they have to go through this. This is hard for you as a friend as well. I pray too, and I'll be praying for all of you.

 

[paradisi]

="cerelife, post: 917958, member: 4592"]
With all due respect @paradisi - We essential workers have been putting others' lives first since the onset of this pandemic. I'm a CT tech in a large hospital and as such I've been on the front line for Covid cases from the very beginning since CT is the preferred modality for imaging Covid patients. We were scared to death EVERY. SINGLE. DAY because no one was really sure how it was transmitted/how long the virus survived in the air or on surfaces/etc.
But we showed up, suited up, and took care of our patients even though we were terrified of getting infected - or even worse - bringing the virus home to our families.
We've worked nonstop through the pandemic while others got paid to stay home.
I don't even know how to put into words how (mentally and physically) exhausted we are from constantly being vigilant against spreading this virus.
In an 8-hour shift during the height of the virus; I had to suit up in full PPE on a daily average of at least 10 times. And then sanitize every surface in my CT suite while still in full PPE before I could take care of myself.
This has been terrifying and traumatic and there isn't enough money in the universe to pay us for what we've gone through to take care of our patients during these unprecedented times.
All of this to say that your statement is incredibly insulting to those of us who have put not only our lives - but also our family's lives - on the line long before there was a vaccine available.
I personally am fully vaccinated, but you do realize that vaccinated people can still contract Covid and spread it to others, right? And since we may be asymptomatic, that makes us a little more dangerous.
But by all means, fire all of the essential workers who refuse to be vaccinated with an experimental vaccine. I'm glad you're "quite comfortable" with that.
My apologies if I'm not so comfortable with this opinion that seems to be growing in popularity in social media. We need help and I'll be happy to add a link to our hospital group's Human Resource "Available Jobs" page for anyone with this mindset who wants to come be exposed to Covid everyday with us.

I do realize. And-- coming from a medical family with medical, police & firefighters as friends-- I don't respect choosing to disregard the safety of others, especially when based on politics.

The vaccines aren't experimental. It's shocking that you'd let that disinformation guide you.

You make your choice, you live with the consequences of having to find a different line of work.

Nobody forced anyone to take those jobs. But people in distress (wrecks, fires, heart attacks etc.) are going to come in contact with them. What about *their* rights?

As I said, I'm comfortable with workers in public facing jobs who won't get vaccinated having to either find non public facing accommodations if the employer has them, or find another job.

( Political comment deleted in post above - against forum rules. )

 

[earlene]

Vaccination mandates have existed in our culture world-wide to varying degrees for a very long time.

The first trial for the polio vaccine in US schools was in 1954. And I remember lining up with hundreds of other children to get vaccinated against polio via sugar cube distribution as a child a few years later. My parents gladly took us to get it because they didn't want their 5 children (at the time) to end up in a wheel chair like our former president had been.

When the Hepatitis B vaccine became mandatory for hospital nurses (& others), I gladly got mine while hoping for vaccines for the other forms of Hepatitis, because as an RN accidental needle-stick exposures were a very real risk! Luckily I never did contract any form of Hepatitis despite exposures, but while in the military, my brother did and his quality of life changed drastically for the rest of his life. So he participated in clinical trials to help identify effective treatment. Decades of his life was dedicated to finding a cure for Hepatitis C. There is still no vaccine for it, but at least there are effective treatments and a cure. But it would be far better to never contract the disease than to have to suffer through the treatments and the cure.

Maybe one day there will be a vaccine to protect against AIDs. I know a lot of effort continues to be put into finding a vaccine and a cure.

Both in my private life and in my career, I have seen many people sick with many of the diseases for which `vaccines now exist to protect against, and I sincerely say I'd rather be vaccinated for every one of them. I'm old enough that I've had a few diseases before the vaccines became available, and even though I survived, I much preferred my children, grand & great grandchildren be vaccinated than have to suffer those diseases. And I did not have to suffer all the diseases that many before me had to suffer because I was vaccinated. And my sons did not have to suffer all the diseases I did because they were vaccinated. And my grandchildren & great grandchildren won't have to suffer all the diseases that many people my age and my children's and grandchildren's ages could not be protected against, so I am and will remain a believer in the necessity of vaccines to protect health and welfare.

And I did not even address the requirements that many nations put on travelers regarding required vaccinations prior to being allowed to visit said countries. There are many world-wide, for good reason, and I support that as well.

 

[gww]

AliOop

Not to mention that should we make it to the hospital, we will languish bc there is no one there to put us back together. Or God forbid, treat us for covid.

The hospitals that have been forced to let patients languish lately is bc of covid over load with unvaccinated being in numbers ten to one of those vaccinated.

Vaccine hesitancy has been around since the first vaccine. I have only taken two flue shots in my life so far and not cause I am so against them but more because I was lazy. I the 1918 pandimic, the vaccine did not really work but also did not really hurt anyone for the effort. The track record is mostly good and the risk is mostly low. Nothing is perfect. However, None of the previous accomplishments could have worked with out participation and some times mandates.

I have two choices to look at this. One is where I am with only responsibility for myself and the ability to just stay home and collect my check in the mail. Others have no choice but to get out and get it on just to survive. Others yet have responsibility given to them by others to address public policy. In my mind, it is best to try and put myself in all the above situations and try and figure big picture what is best for all and then to not be so critical of those who are doing their best with good intent.

If you are not one of those that is allergic to what is in the vaccine or have some other medical situation including age for young children, the most helpful thing seems to be to get vaccinated not to protect yourself but to protect others who might not be as lucky to have the same ability to do so as I do. I am not saying people should be lemmings and all swim together into the sea and kill themselves but also find it hard to respect the 8 percent of the new york cops who are better then all their co workers when using the same data to make a decision for good or bad.
Cheers.
gww
Ps Belief is a funny thing, there are still people that believe we did not land on the moon and that the world is flat. Who am I to say that they really don't believe these things.

 

[LynetteO]

I work with a woman that has cancer & was due to undergo a double mastectomy day after tomorrow. She had to take a Covid test prior to surgery. She’s been being super careful because the surgery was already delayed once previously due to Covid protocol. Bless her heart, she just learned that her surgery is delayed another 6 weeks, minimum. The pre-surgical mandatory Covid test came back positive for Covid. I work right next to this woman every day & can say that she doesn’t have a single Covid symptom. I am quite familiar with all the Class A, Class B symptoms & Covid protocol for the public school system & this is 1st time I’ve come across an asymptotic individual that tested positive that has not had direct contact with someone else with Covid. She’s flabbergasted to say the least!

 

[Catscankim]

I work with a woman that has cancer & was due to undergo a double mastectomy day after tomorrow. She had to take a Covid test prior to surgery. She’s been being super careful because the surgery was already delayed once previously due to Covid protocol. Bless her heart, she just learned that her surgery is delayed another 6 weeks, minimum. The pre-surgical mandatory Covid test came back positive for Covid. I work right next to this woman every day & can say that she doesn’t have a single Covid symptom. I am quite familiar with all the Class A, Class B symptoms & Covid protocol for the public school system & this is 1st time I’ve come across an asymptotic individual that tested positive that has not had direct contact with someone else with Covid. She’s flabbergasted to say the least!

We have asymptomatic patients come in all the time who test positive, just the same as you can test positive for the flu without being sick.

We have a covid dedicated OR. I thought every hospital did… I could be wrong. But I mean, if we get a trauma that tests positive, they cant deny them life-saving surgery.

 

[paradisi]

How awful for her, and you.

She obviously did have contact with someone with covid, she and they just didn't know it yet. People can shed virus for days before they would have any symptoms. It's scary.

It's too bad people who are contagious don't turn bright purple or something so there'd be no guessing.

 

[LynetteO]

@Catscankim I don’t know if Spokane has a dedicated Covid OR but the area hospitals have all put a hold on elective surgeries at least twice since the start of the epidemic. Yes her surgery is considered elective. One reason it’s considered as such is because she opted to have the surgery in lieu of chemo & radiation due to her immediate family history of breast cancer.

How awful for her, and you.

She obviously did have contact with someone with covid, she and they just didn't know it yet. People can shed virus for days before they would have any symptoms. It's scary.

It's too bad people who are contagious don't turn bright purple or something so there'd be no guessing.

She said as much every day working in a public school. She was forced to come back to work because of 1st surgical delay. Any child that coughed, sneezed or had mask askew she feared she was doomed with auto immune disorder & unvaccinated. She wasn’t expecting asymptomatic positive case however. That was straw that broke camels back, so to speak.

 

[cerelife]

I do realize. And-- coming from a medical family with medical, police & firefighters as friends-- I don't respect choosing to disregard the safety of others, especially when based on politics.

The vaccines aren't experimental. It's shocking that you'd let that disinformation guide you.

You make your choice, you live with the consequences of having to find a different line of work.

Nobody forced anyone to take those jobs. But people in distress (wrecks, fires, heart attacks etc.) are going to come in contact with them. What about *their* rights?

As I said, I'm comfortable with workers in public facing jobs who won't get vaccinated having to either find non public facing accommodations if the employer has them, or find another job.

1) I never mentioned politics in my previous post, so I'm not sure why you would bring it up in this conversation. ( Political comment deleted in quoted post above - against forum rules. )
2) I don't understand your comment of how you find it shocking that I would let this disinformation (that the vaccine is experimental) guide me, since I plainly stated that I'm fully vaccinated. Also this isn't disinformation, it's a fact. The FDA has only authorized the vaccines for emergency use while gathering research data with the concept of "the benefits outweigh the risks" mentality. Even now, only Pfizer is FDA approved with huge caveats in the approval pending more research data. I don't know how you define experimental, but here's an unbiased definition:
ex-per-i-men-tal
adjective
(of a new invention or product) based on untested ideas or techniques and not yet established or finalized.
"an experimental drug"
3) You are absolutely correct that no one forced us into these jobs. We freely chose our professions. But as I said in my prior post, there isn't enough money in the universe to pay us for what we've gone through for the past 19 months and still currently deal with every day. Add to that our staffing shortages...we lost a lot of great people (doctors, nurses, radiology and respiratory staff, EMS, etc.) during the pandemic. Some took early retirement, some decided on a career change, and we lost 2 people to suicide in my hospital alone. Now we're losing even more people due to vaccine mandates.
Those people in distress you mentioned - and their rights?? We're overwhelmed and understaffed so those people who need immediate treatment may not get it because of this situation.
I personally am NOT 'quite comfortable' with this because it's creating a huge problem with taking care of our patients in a timely manner.
I honestly wish that you could live in my world for just one day.

 

[gww]

cerelife
I do think you guys are heroes and most of you were tackling this way before there was any vaccine or treatment and before anyone really knew what we were dealing with and what it would do and that is bravery. Pretty sure I could not handle that. People should get credit for all they do. Cheers
gww

 

[melinda48]

With all due respect @paradisi - We essential workers have been putting others' lives first since the onset of this pandemic. I'm a CT tech in a large hospital and as such I've been on the front line for Covid cases from the very beginning since CT is the preferred modality for imaging Covid patients. We were scared to death EVERY. SINGLE. DAY because no one was really sure how it was transmitted/how long the virus survived in the air or on surfaces/etc.
But we showed up, suited up, and took care of our patients even though we were terrified of getting infected - or even worse - bringing the virus home to our families.
We've worked nonstop through the pandemic while others got paid to stay home.
I don't even know how to put into words how (mentally and physically) exhausted we are from constantly being vigilant against spreading this virus.
In an 8-hour shift during the height of the virus; I had to suit up in full PPE on a daily average of at least 10 times. And then sanitize every surface in my CT suite while still in full PPE before I could take care of myself.
This has been terrifying and traumatic and there isn't enough money in the universe to pay us for what we've gone through to take care of our patients during these unprecedented times.
All of this to say that your statement is incredibly insulting to those of us who have put not only our lives - but also our family's lives - on the line long before there was a vaccine available.
I personally am fully vaccinated, but you do realize that vaccinated people can still contract Covid and spread it to others, right? And since we may be asymptomatic, that makes us a little more dangerous.
But by all means, fire all of the essential workers who refuse to be vaccinated with an experimental vaccine. I'm glad you're "quite comfortable" with that.
My apologies if I'm not so comfortable with this opinion that seems to be growing in popularity in social media. We need help and I'll be happy to add a link to our hospital group's Human Resource "Available Jobs" page for anyone with this mindset who wants to come be exposed to Covid everyday with us.

I continue to be appalled at the reaction people have to requiring vaccines for those who have, for the past two years, put their lives on the line every single day to care for our fellow humans. They were good enough to care for you prior to the vaccine but are now lepers?
Kudos to all our medical personnel, kudos to our store clerks (those who made it possible for you to get you groceries when you were afraid or unwilling to trek out to the store yourself); kudos to the truck drivers who delivered our soaping supplies in a timely manner so we can pursue our hobby/businesses; kudos to the police and fire fighters who stand between us and possible disaster from many sources; kudos to our mailmen (letter carriers) who suit up and show up every single day to deliver our goods; kudos to the trash collectors who suit up and show up consistently and who have done so throughout the pandemics. Kudos to those who work in the factories that make our precious masks and who make the heaters that warm the blood and medicines for our transfusions. I’m sure I have missed some folks and I apologize.
If you choose/chose to be vaccinated, good for you. My husband and I are both vaccinated but do not judge those who have chosen not to take the vaccine. We have good friends who are not vaccinated; they are still good friends. We recently lost a good friend who was not vaccinated; we did not gloat or scold. We all talk about respecting each other and respecting each other’s values, lifestyles, choices - maybe it’s time to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
Everyone approaches life in his/her own way. To say that our healthcare professionals can be easily replaced is a ludicrous statement - just think about it - one cannot become a doctor or nurse or tech in two weeks for heaven sake!

If you have already had Covid-19 and have developed natural immunity, you should not have to be mandated. While both tend to fade away - no one has all the facts. Ready for 5 years olds? The test was done with 3,000 children - how in the world is that a large enough sample. they say “some” developed myocarditis - how many?

I don’t care if you have been vaccinated or not. I would hope everyone would see the benefits but there are many reasons not to take the vaccine - each is personal and, is frankly, none of my business. We have a 70%+ vaccine rate - good for us! I pray your life will be full and that you can go forward as Mac Bolin (the movie super-spy from the 70’s said) “live large.”

 

[gww]

melinda
Fellow Missourian. Still, keep in mind, what is using the health care resources is ten to one, those who are not vaccinated. There are billions of people having safely took the vaccine and so plenty of data. Mandates are being done by policy makers right or wrongly to your view. It seems to be a very funny hill to die on in a refusal to take something with such data behind it. This is nothing like being paid in script that can only be spent at the company store but more like wearing a hair net if you work cooking a McDonalds. Is that a reason that a person should quit their job over. There is no harm to those but could be harm by the data to those they serve as most people recognize based on how many are vaccinated as well as how many commercial cooks wear hairnets.

Policy makers world wide recognize and make decisions on what the data is saying and this is why travel is restricted and has steps involved to be able to do it. Yet the complaint is by a few whos jobs are public facing. Perhaps those few should just recognize what the whole world can plainly see and is acting on also. Though it may not be the end of the world if it happens, nobody who is paying for a bowl of soup really wants to find a hair in it and this is not near as serious as what covid does to some.

Cheers
gww

 

[AliOop]

@gww Wearing a hair net has zero potential health effects. The vaccines have some extremely serious side effects for some folks. The exact numbers are unknown because our governmental agencies have been obfuscating the data. This only serves to increase vaccine hesitancy and resistance.

And no, the whole world does not agree about the efficacy or safety of the vaccine - not even close. If they did, we would not be having this conversation.

 

[gww]

AliOop
Because this affects the whole world, it would be impossible to obfuscate the data. There is nothing being hid that can stay hid with so much of the world involved. This should give comfort in what is know and not fear in what we don't know. Nothing is perfect and I whole heartedly agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that if a treatment after the fact could be found we might handle this better but till then, it is what it is.

There have been different reactions on how to go about tackling the problem which are being studied after the fact and assessed for effectiveness.

Their may be some that are making claims of issues from the fringe that the whole world looks at and as of yet have not given credence to. Those claims are out there to be seen and you must admit that resource world wide are big enough to investigate them and yet billions of people have taken the vaccine with out incident.
There are people with medical conditions that can not receive the vaccine but these are also known and not being hidden.

I have zero belief that this is a world wide effort to put one over on the common people.
Cheers
gww

 

[AliOop]

@gww What you claim as fact, I find to be fiction, and vice versa.

Rather than continue to debate our different views, we can agree to disagree.