Coronavirus

[Vicki C]

I am PRO VACCINE and frustrated by disinformation. So, that’s where I stand.

Here is some info from a local tv station, WTOL, on Attorney Renz and this lawsuit and his previous lawsuit. She says vaccines make you magnetized. This lawmaker invited her testimony, chair says

Here is some info from the Ohio Capital Journal on the previous lawsuit. COVID deniers drop lawsuit against health department; their $130k legal fund remains - Ohio Capital Journal

I am grateful to be vaccinated. I worry about my two grandchildren who are too young to be vaccinated and yes, I understand that children fare better in general than adults with C19 infections.

 

[beckster51]

My 2 pennies: The vaccine was NOT created quickly. After the SARS 2003 outbreak, a vaccine went into pre-clinical animal testing, and scientists knew to target the spike protein. When covid -19 showed up, all they had to do was tweak proteins and DNA strands, test to see it was effective, then test to double check safety. It's the same thing for flu vaccines every year; there's a model vaccine to start with which is tweaked to fit the current virus circulating that year.
mRNA vaccine technology has also been around for 15 years or more. It greatly increases the speed at which a vaccine can be produced as well.

2) I don't know how or if this relates to the legal complaint listed above, but have you seen website with the adverse reactions reports of the vaccine? I've read through a dozen pages or so of it. The adverse effects are NOT reported by medical personnel, they're reported by mostly relatives. There's no qualification system for someone to report an adverse effect....it's basically guesses and heresy. People claiming that they 84 year old parent in palliative care with 2 chronic diseases dying days after receiving the vaccine are....useless. Most of them were elderly, compromised patients. There were no medical evaluations or autopsies substantiating any claims. Causes of deaths of the death certificates varied greatly, and many family called them lies. So, if any of those 45,000 supposed vaccine deaths came from the adverse reaction list, I know there's no proof behind it.

Great comment! Unfortunately, families and other nonmedical people are contributing to misinformation through ignorance about what has caused death in a lot of people. A large number of people will die every day, regardless of Covid-19 vaccines. That does not mean all deaths of people who received the vaccine can be attributed to the vaccine. It's understandable that the vaccine would jump to mind first, but saying with certainty it was caused by the vaccine is not based in fact. I know there are medical researchers who are going to review each and every one of these deaths, but it will take time to determine if they are vaccine related. And, yes, mRNA research into coronavirus vaccines has been going on a long time. Other coronaviruses had caused epidemics prior to this one. MERS and SARS are both coronaviruses, and they caused many deaths, but they are not well known in this country because few people in this country were affected.

 

[Susie]

I am happily vaccinated. So are all the members of my immediate family. I am the definition of a person with co-morbidities. I took the steps I deemed necessary to be as safe as possible. I have members on all sides of my extended family who are vehemently anti-vaxxers when it comes to this vaccine. I try to explain to them that we have been making mRNA vaccines for a lot of years. They don't listen.

I know people who were vaccinated and then caught the delta variant. They spent a week at a children's camp that has since been shut down due to the overwhelming numbers of people with Co-Vid. They had 3 days of mild flu symptoms and went on with their lives as soon as they tested negative.

I talk to a lot of patients and families every day, and I really feel for the families that are now losing people to this virus because that person refused a vaccine. They are so angry at the person for not making a better decision. I fear their grief process will be a lot longer because they essentially feel like that person committed suicide. And speaking from experience, being stuck in the anger part of the grief process really extends the process. You have to get past it to move on.

Make up your own minds on what you are going to do about the vaccine. But if you are not going to get the vaccine, maybe talk to your family members on how they would feel if you died of a preventable illness like Co-vid. Because you do matter to them. And grief is all they will be left with.

 

[beckster51]

I am happily vaccinated. So are all the members of my immediate family. I am the definition of a person with co-morbidities. I took the steps I deemed necessary to be as safe as possible. I have members on all sides of my extended family who are vehemently anti-vaxxers when it comes to this vaccine. I try to explain to them that we have been making mRNA vaccines for a lot of years. They don't listen.

I know people who were vaccinated and then caught the delta variant. They spent a week at a children's camp that has since been shut down due to the overwhelming numbers of people with Co-Vid. They had 3 days of mild flu symptoms and went on with their lives as soon as they tested negative.

I talk to a lot of patients and families every day, and I really feel for the families that are now losing people to this virus because that person refused a vaccine. They are so angry at the person for not making a better decision. I fear their grief process will be a lot longer because they essentially feel like that person committed suicide. And speaking from experience, being stuck in the anger part of the grief process really extends the process. You have to get past it to move on.

Make up your own minds on what you are going to do about the vaccine. But if you are not going to get the vaccine, maybe talk to your family members on how they would feel if you died of a preventable illness like Co-vid. Because you do matter to them. And grief is all they will be left with.

This is really spot-on and touching, Susie. My mother committed suicide, it is very difficult to come to terms with a loved one's death that angers you while you also feel bereft that they are gone. How do you resolve anger when there is no longer anyone there to be angry with? I also feel sorrow for those who lose loved ones that refused the vaccine.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

And what is the population of New Zealand compared to that of the US? I think we are doing fine considering our numbers. Vaccines are available for free everywhere you turn. Those who want it can easily get it; those who do not want it, won’t take it. Live your life as completely as you can as it is the only one you will get. I, for one, will not spend my time sequestered in my home, much as I love it! Fresh air, sunshine, good food, good friends (and making great soap) make life worth living.

I hear you loud and clear! Self care of one's mental health is definitely important. NZ is definitely self contained; however if we had done more testing and isolation at the beginning, the case loads would have been much lower. Once we understood that wearing masks helped protect others, more should have done it, than get all up in arms about their "rights." When someone who can, doesn't get the vaccine, they are not risking only their health, but the health of those who can't get it because of certain health conditions. Additionally, until world herd immunity is reached one day sooner or later there will be a variant that the vaccine can't stop. Yes they will need to tweak the vaccine, but how many will get sick and possibly die, when the variant could have been prevented; then even those of us who have been vaccinated are at risk. In my opinion, our individualistic American spirit gets in the way at times and needs to be balanced with what's good for the greater community.

I know I am getting all preachy here and perhaps because I live in a southern rural community, these attitudes are more prevalent here. Please know that I am not attacking you @melinda48, I am just generally concerned about this situation. If anything, this pandemic has shown us what a global community we truly are and what one does truly has an impact on others.

 

[earlene]

Much as I feel it is a sad state of affairs that any discerning human would belligerently choose to put themselves above others while protecting their purported rights & perceived well-being over the rights and well-being of others, perhaps this is mother nature's way of thinning the herd or a method of reducing the population that is causing so much damage to the Earth upon which we live. Perhaps it is a method of proving Darwin's theory about the survival of the fittest; I do not necessarily mean those most physically fit, but those who exercise wisdom as a test of fitness.

Now the anti-vaxxers believe they are exercising wisdom, while the science and health conscious tend to believe that wisdom dictates vaccination to prevent wide-spread death and disease. We all have a right to our own opinions, whether we think the other opinion is stupid or not.

Then, of course there are the folks who have little to no access to vaccines but would take them were they available to them; these folks are the ones who are sadly suffering because they don't have a choice. I feel more for them than I do for the others whose opinions are different than my own. I feel badly for them because they don't have easy choices and their lives are at risk through no choice of their own.

 

[AliOop]

Just remember that most folks refusing the vaccine are not doing so out of selfishness; they honestly believe that the vaccine does more harm than good.

I am not saying that these folks are correct. I am saying that you will feel less angry towards those refusing the vaccine if you believe the best about them - that they are acting out of sincere beliefs (right or wrong), and not selfishness.

Reducing the level of hostility and division among us is good for everyone, both mentally and physically.

 

[lenarenee]

Why do people believe the magnetism thing? Are they seeing forks and spoons flying across restaurant to smack into vaccinated people? Are coins and paperclips stuck to people's hands? Are people calling 911 to ask for help because they're magnetized to their stainless steel 'fridge?

Seriously, I suspect a lot of this can be explained by personality traits. An unvaccinated man recovering from covid in the hospital was asked if he would have gotten vaccinated had he known his future. He said no, because he wasn't going to let anyone shove anything down his throat. I understand what he means....the more I'm forced to do something, the more it's not going to get done. However, I didn't feel forced to get the vaccine, as I work for scientists and am fed covid science daily and recognized this is a desperate world wide effort to contain the virus.

 

[Susie]

Much as I feel it is a sad state of affairs that any discerning human would belligerently choose to put themselves above others while protecting their purported rights & perceived well-being over the rights and well-being of others, perhaps this is mother nature's way of thinning the herd or a method of reducing the population that is causing so much damage to the Earth upon which we live. Perhaps it is a method of proving Darwin's theory about the survival of the fittest; I do not necessarily mean those most physically fit, but those who exercise wisdom as a test of fitness.

Now the anti-vaxxers believe they are exercising wisdom, while the science and health conscious tend to believe that wisdom dictates vaccination to prevent wide-spread death and disease. We all have a right to our own opinions, whether we think the other opinion is stupid or not.

Then, of course there are the folks who have little to no access to vaccines but would take them were they available to them; these folks are the ones who are sadly suffering because they don't have a choice. I feel more for them than I do for the others whose opinions are different than my own. I feel badly for them because they don't have easy choices and their lives are at risk through no choice of their own.

I have thought this more than once. My relatives (bless their hearts) think this about me. I now watch them freak out about whether we will have to prove vaccine status to fly or gather in large numbers. I understand that each side thinks the other is doing something incredibly risky and foolish, but I really hope that does not cost one of them their life.

 

[Dana89]

Why do people believe the magnetism thing? Are they seeing forks and spoons flying across restaurant to smack into vaccinated people? Are coins and paperclips stuck to people's hands? Are people calling 911 to ask for help because they're magnetized to their stainless steel 'fridge?

Seriously, I suspect a lot of this can be explained by personality traits. An unvaccinated man recovering from covid in the hospital was asked if he would have gotten vaccinated had he known his future. He said no, because he wasn't going to let anyone shove anything down his throat. I understand what he means....the more I'm forced to do something, the more it's not going to get done. However, I didn't feel forced to get the vaccine, as I work for scientists and am fed covid science daily and recognized this is a desperate world wide effort to contain the virus.

He may feel differently if they have to shove a breathing tube down his throat.

 

[rdc1978]

My brother's girlfriend is smart as a whip (not particularly personable, but incredibly smart).

Graduates magna cum laude from a top law school.

Last we spoke, she was refusing the vaccine on based on "research" which tends to have been debunked.

One of the biggest problem we have is that intelligent people naturally research and Google is going to be a part of that.
Anyone can put anything on the internet. And some of it looks very official. And it's so hard to be critical if something looks legit and is using a lot of medical terms you don't understand or that they are explaining to you.

And its part of the reason why i think these discussions are important.

The days where people just trust authority figures has passes. People want to do their own research. And the more intelligent the person, the more likely they are to think they can understand everything even without a background in the field.

 

[TheGecko]

Much as I feel it is a sad state of affairs that any discerning human would belligerently choose to put themselves above others while protecting their purported rights & perceived well-being over the rights and well-being of others, perhaps this is mother nature's way of thinning the herd or a method of reducing the population that is causing so much damage to the Earth upon which we live. Perhaps it is a method of proving Darwin's theory about the survival of the fittest; I do not necessarily mean those most physically fit, but those who exercise wisdom as a test of fitness.

Now the anti-vaxxers believe they are exercising wisdom, while the science and health conscious tend to believe that wisdom dictates vaccination to prevent wide-spread death and disease. We all have a right to our own opinions, whether we think the other opinion is stupid or not.

Then, of course there are the folks who have little to no access to vaccines but would take them were they available to them; these folks are the ones who are sadly suffering because they don't have a choice. I feel more for them than I do for the others whose opinions are different than my own. I feel badly for them because they don't have easy choices and their lives are at risk through no choice of their own.

This is a bunch of effing bovine male excrement! Just because someone chooses to not get vaccinated for Covid 19 does NOT make them an anti-vaxxer, doesn't NOT make them belligerent, does NOT make them less discerning, does NOT make them selfish, does NOT make them stupid or whatever other insult you can come up.

I am not vaccinated. My husband is. None of my children are (including the one who had Covid). One sister is vaccinated, one is not, none of their children are. Out of the seven people in our office, two of us are not vaccinated, one had Covid and is not vaccinated, the rest are (when one of the guys in the office found out that I was not going to get vaccinated, he became insulting and belittling...boss put a stop to that). Of two DILs, one is vaccinated, one is not. It should be noted that everyone is an adult (30+).

Since the very beginning of Covid-19, there has been a LOT of misinformation put before the public. Some of it was due to lack of understanding of Covid-19, some of it was due to the changing nature of the virus, a lot of it was political; and unfortunately, at least in the US, the politics has not stopped. And the virus hasn't stopped changing either. The media has down played it a lot, but the vaccine isn't effective against the variant out of India.

As of right now, I am not comfortable with subjecting myself to a vaccine for a new virus that was less than a year old. I understand that science is constantly working on vaccine and for any one to say: "The vaccine was NOT created quickly. After the SARS 2003 outbreak, a vaccine went into pre-clinical animal testing, and scientists knew to target the spike protein. When Covid -19 showed up, all they had to do was tweak proteins and DNA strands, test to see it was effective, then test to double check safety." is mind-blowing. Consider this...this person wants folks to believe that a vaccine that has been in development for 16-17 years for a virus that globally affected less than 10,000 people and hasn't been seen since (expect in a lab) was able to be quickly made with a little 'tweaking' and we're just supposed to accept that?!? No. No.

 

[paradisi]

Covid vax is NOT new; just this one variety. MERS, SARS didn't much affect the US, but MRNA vax aren't new or untested.

And we have new flu vax every season, with less time to develop and test than the covid vax have been.

Choosing not to be vaccinated (unless you've got an immunodeficiency or are on chemo, etc) is choosing to risk the health of everyone you come in contact with, as well as your own.

Googling is not research. Reading political blogs or your Facebook feed is not research.

Covid vax are more tested, and proven effective and safe, than the ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine that vax resisters tout.

It seems that a lot of the hostility shown by vax resisters might be because they see they've backed the wrong horse, so to speak, and are unwilling to admit it in public.

I don't care if resisters admit anything in public, I just want them to be good to themselves and their families, friends and anyone they cross paths with by getting vaccinated, and not spreading misinformation or outright lies about the safety and effectiveness of the vac.

Friends of mine who were unable to be vaccinated for real medical reasons have died or spent months on a ventilator because of vax resisters and it's not just horribly sad, it's infuriating that people who don't know what they're talking about or think it can't happen to *them* have caused it.

 

[rdc1978]

I think you both have good points. I know where I land, but I've trusted medical science since I was diagnosed with t1 diabetes as a child. So it's very natural for me to trust what the medical community recommends.
I dont have that spirit that makes me super critical. And I think we ALL have been in a field where someone who hadn't had the same expertise that we did, thought they understood things as well as we did.

I've gotten frustrated but when I sit back and take an objective look, what can we do?

As @paradisi. Said, the most important thing for people who are pro vaccine is to get more people to get vaccinated.

AND as @TheGecko said, or alluded, the only way we are going to even have a shot (pun intended) at getting more people vaccinated is to have these open conversations, where we talk about things that may be misinformation or things that can be explaining. Countering and clarifying confusing and conflicting information.

There are some people who will never take the vaccine. But hopefully people can be open to having their concerns addressed.

 

[Marsi]

in Australia most of our population is unvaccinated
we have 3 vaccines approved by our government
Pfizer (extremely limited supply), Astra Zeneca (abundant stock, 6 Australian clot deaths), Moderna (supply due to arrive later this year)

people under 40 are excluded from the official government vaccine rollout
they are turned away if they show up and refused a booking if they call to book
(except for priority groups, yesterday pregnant woment were included in the priority Pfizer rollout group)

people eligible for the Pfizer vaccine are having difficulty accessing the vaccine, there is not enough stock
recently the official reports showed one mass vaccination hub in VIC ... vaccinated 50 people
in NSW, where the Delta variant in in the community, second doses of Pfizer are being postponed or cancelled, to allow more first doses to be given

the Moderna vaccine is not being offered to anyone

i talked to a teacher here who is desperate to get vaccinated, they deal with the public and children every day at their work
they are young and not included in the official government priority list (for their designated vaccine, Pfizer)
the only choice they have is to risk taking the Astra Zeneca vaccine, by seeking it out privately and signing a waiver for their doctor

some people are understandably nervous about the Astra Zeneca vaccine
(5 people here have died of thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) and 1 of immune thrombocytopenia (ITP))

the reality for most of our population?
Astra Zeneca, or nothing
we have ... Hobsons' choice

The media has down played it a lot, but the vaccine isn't effective against the variant out of India.

incorrect
reduced efficacy is not the same as inefficacy

According to figures gathered by Public Health Scotland and published in the Lancet, at least two weeks after the second dose of Covid jabs, protection against infection fell from 92% for the Alpha variant to 79% against the Delta variant for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, while for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine the protection fell from 73% to 60% respectively.

Protection against symptomatic disease has also been found to differ depending on the variant.

According to the latest figures from Public Health England (PHE), four weeks after one dose, either vaccine offered almost 50% protection against the Alpha variant. However for the Delta variant this protection was lower, with one dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech jab offering about 36% protection against symptomatic disease. For one dose of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine this figure was about 30%.


Two weeks after the second dose, the differences in vaccine effectiveness by variant were more modest, with the Pfizer/BioNTech jab offering 88% protection against symptomatic disease with the Delta variant, compared with 94% protection against the Alpha variant. For the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, the figures were 67% and 74% respectively.

*www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/the-covid-delta-variant-how-effective-are-the-vaccines

 

[KiwiMoose]

I'm a dreadful fence-sitter. I am one of those people who hears and understands both sides of the story. As I say, I am pleased that I live somewhere that allows me the breathing space to sit on said fence and there is no pressure either way. Like I said earlier, if I lived somewhere where COVID-19 was more prevalent I'm sure I would be acting one way or another.

 

[rdc1978]

@Marsi- I joke that I pledged house Pfizer and it was such a relief given my underlying condition.

Pfizer has to be kept extremely cold. I went to a federal vaccination site and the nurses had to keep only a small number of prefilled shots in an insulated box on their table because it had to be kept so cold.

I remember when the vaccine first came out, people were like waiting in lines, hoping for leftovers, getting up at all hours of the morning to get it....and now you can literally walk into any local CVS or Walgreens and get a vaccine.

I hope that what you guys experience too. I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I hope it works out. I literally cried with relief when I got my first shot. I didn't realize how much stress I was under and how worried I was until I could feel it in my arm.

 

[Vicki C]

@Marsi- I joke that I pledged house Pfizer and it was such a relief given my underlying condition.

Pfizer has to be kept extremely cold. I went to a federal vaccination site and the nurses had to keep only a small number of prefilled shots in an insulated box on their table because it had to be kept so cold.

I remember when the vaccine first came out, people were like waiting in lines, hoping for leftovers, getting up at all hours of the morning to get it....and now you can literally walk into any local CVS or Walgreens and get a vaccine.

I hope that what you guys experience too. I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I hope it works out. I literally cried with relief when I got my first shot. I didn't realize how much stress I was under and how worried I was until I could feel it in my arm.

I cried too.

 

[lenarenee]

I understand that science is constantly working on vaccine and for any one to say: "The vaccine was NOT created quickly. After the SARS 2003 outbreak, a vaccine went into pre-clinical animal testing, and scientists knew to target the spike protein. When Covid -19 showed up, all they had to do was tweak proteins and DNA strands, test to see it was effective, then test to double check safety." is mind-blowing. Consider this...this person wants folks to believe that a vaccine that has been in development for 16-17 years for a virus that globally affected less than 10,000 people and hasn't been seen since (expect in a lab) was able to be quickly made with a little 'tweaking' and we're just supposed to accept that?!? No. No.

That SARS 2003 pandemic is EXACTLY why a vaccine became a priority to science - they recognized the high potential for a lethal future pandemic of a very sneaky virus. And today we are flippin' lucky that they did. (despite the fact they were defunded a by governments a few years later. The prototype was saved and stored despite that).

It's just like flu vaccines; once you have the prototype, you tweak it to meet the next new form. Flu and coronaviruses have hundreds of different versions.

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/coronaviruses

 

[Nona'sFarm]

@Marsi , my prayers are for all those willing and ready to get the vaccine, but not able to, because of lack of availability. I hope the U.S. will continue to provide help to those who need it. Until we reach worldwide herd immunity, we are all at risk for new variants. I know the stress we were under trying to find vaccine availability for my 99 year old father and the sigh of relief after he was finally vaccinated. (and as my children point out, I'm no spring chicken, either) He is at risk for even a mild form of the disease, as are many others. So I am also fervently praying that everyone who can, get vaccinated.
For those still unsure, I urge you to talk with your healthcare professionals, getting as many details as possible to address your concerns. I was really concerned for my granddaughter, until I had a long talk with my relatives who are medical professionals. I felt that it was just too new and there just hadn't been enough research to understand the long term effects on a young person. They were able to explain how it worked and the relative safety of it, and particularly the risk of not getting the vaccine; the risk both to her and others.