"Cool" honey soap - no partial gel

[JuliaNegusuk]

Hi all, I just thought I'd share an idea with people. I always have problems with honey soap as I find it hard not to get partial gel and a resulting dark patch in the middle of my soap. I soap cool, pour fast, freeze for about half an hour prior to refrigeration for at least a day and I still seem to get it. This is following the normal instructions to add the honey at trace. So I had a brainwave - why not add the honey to the water and freeze it before making the lye, so similar process to making goat milk soap. I tried it and it seems to have worked a treat. Yesterday unmoulded a batch of lovely, pale cream cinnamon, honey and oatmeal soap, which looks fine with no shadow in the middle. (I also use single cell silicone moulds which helps avoid the heat building in the centre like in a loaf mould.) I know some people will still prefer to add the honey at trace because they feel it might preserve the benefits better. Personally I'm not sure it makes a difference. So I just thought I'd throw the idea out there for similar anti partial gel obsessives like me. Warning though, the lye goes an alarming shade of bright orange when you add it to the honey ice cubes. Took a while to trace too. Keep calm and carry on - it will be alright in the end.

 

[Kamahido]

I have never made soap with honey before but have heard that it heats up quite a bit. To avoid partial gel could you also use the Cold Process Oven Process Method, or would you run the risk of volcanoing?

 

[Ford Prefect]

Great solution to the gel problem!

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Kamahido, thanks for the suggestion. I'm very definitely in the non gel, cool soaping camp. Maybe I should try CPOP or hot process some time to compare, but maybe not with honey soap!

 

[penelopejane]

Kamahido, thanks for the suggestion. I'm very definitely in the non gel, cool soaping camp. Maybe I should try CPOP or hot process some time to compare, but maybe not with honey soap!

CPOP only to 100*F and turn oven off before putting wrapped soap in works for honey soap to get gel. Soap cool and let the soap saponify. I add honey to the oils. Never had a problem. I like to gel because the soap is harder quicker (can u mold quicker), the colours are brighter and the soap lasts longer when you use it.

Most people use the split method for milk soap to avoid the hassle of mixing ice blocks and lye.

 

[Kamahido]

Cold Process Oven Process is all I personally use, as it forces gel and helps keep my soda ash down. Just to reiterate, I do not use honey (or sugar) in my soap though.

 

[penelopejane]

Cold Process Oven Process is all I personally use, as it forces gel and helps keep my soda ash down. Just to reiterate, I do not use honey (or sugar) in my soap though.

I do use honey in some soap and Low temp CPOP works exactly the same as any other soap. I also do it with 100% split method milk soap. Never had a problem.

I'm also finding leaving soap in mold a little longer - maybe 24hrs plus - has stopped soda ash. Didn't get it with oven CPOP but do get it with heat mat CPOP so have had to find solutions.

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

I have always soaped cool and refrigerated because I hail from a background of mainly making goat milk soap. I have always used 100% full fat goat milk frozen into ice cubes and quite enjoy the process, I don't find it a bother and love the soap. I use only natural colours like madder root and paprika powder and find the results suit me. To me, all natural soap shouldn't be too brightly coloured. (The only natural colourant I can't get to grips with is alkanet root, unless I want battleship grey soap - which on the whole I don't. Maybe CPOP or HP would help there or else I've just got a duff batch of root). Also (touch wood) I have never experienced soap volcanoes, alien brain, glycerine rivers or soda ash. I might be just lucky, or is it because I always soap cool? What do other cool soapers think?

Interesting about gelled soap being harder and lasting longer though. That hadn't occurred to me. But difficult to test. I might give it a go to see if I can tell the difference, so thanks for that insight.

 

[penelopejane]

I have always soaped cool and refrigerated because I hail from a background of mainly making goat milk soap. I have always used 100% full fat goat milk frozen into ice cubes and quite enjoy the process, I don't find it a bother and love the soap. Also (touch wood) I have never experienced soap volcanoes, alien brain, glycerine rivers or soda ash. I might be just lucky, or is it because I always soap cool? What do other cool soapers think?

Interesting about gelled soap being harder and lasting longer though. That hadn't occurred to me. But difficult to test. I might give it a go to see if I can tell the difference, so thanks for that insight.

I soap cool too but I gel my soap. My oils and lye are room temperature when I mix them except shea and coconut oil. I don't heat my soap I just encourage it to get to the temp it needs to gel especially in mid winter when it gets cold here.

When I used to CPOP I preheated the oven 100*F (the temp of a hot day here) then turned it off. All it does is keep the warmth around the soap while it saponifies (which is way higher than that). I also only use natural colours (except when using up current supplies of TD and some micas).

The only one of those things you mentioned that I've experienced is soda ash (touch wood) and only since I've stopped CPOPing in the oven and switched to other methods because my new molds don't fit in the oven.

I make 100% full fat goats milk soap too but I use the split method and CPOP it. We're not that different but we have different processes that work for us. Which is great. If something works stick to it I say!!

It's not difficult to test the hardness of CPOP soap. See how much quicker you can unmold it. I think it makes a bit of difference after weeks of cure but that can be tested scientifically with an instrument or unscientifically by scratching the soap but it has to be the same recipe.

Another reason I CPOP is that I hate partial gel with a passion and it's a reliable method to avoid it. My fridge is always full so I couldn't refrigerate every batch.

 

[IrishLass]

I basically do the same thing whenever using honey, too, only I don't add it to water and freeze into cubes. I actually add my honey (diluted in a little water first to make it less thick) directly into my already-prepared, cooled-to-room-temp lye solution. A fellow soaper gave me the tip several years ago, and once I tried it I never looked back. I find that it takes the fire out right of the honey so that it gives me full-gel without overheating, even if I insulate. And I never get those weeping honey spots in my soap.

My lye solution turns a dark burnt-orange color (almost black), but my soap comes out a light golden-tan. The perfect color for a honey soap.


IrishLass

 

[Buckscent]

I also CP Goats Milk (Frozen) soap WITH honey. I add my honey to the cooled oils PRE GM/Lye. I did notice once I started using honey that it get's to trace QUICK, but my Recipe is a hard bar(47). So anyway.... as soon as I pour I put it in the freezer for about 10-12 hrs (Only because I usually soap at night then get it out the next morning to "Thaw" before I go to work then cut when I get home). I have never had any issues with PG. Actually it comes out kind of just dull, like no gel does... I would like to gel to get the brighter colors but honey makes soap get very hot so I never risked letting it do it's thing to see what happens.... Once I let it sit out for about 3-4 hours before I put in the freezer, the top was cracked from end to end, only the top though so afraid to just let it sit out

 

[Dreamer]

I make 100% full fat goats milk soap too but I use the split method and CPOP it.

Could you please explain how that works? I thought the split method means that one does a 1:1 lye /water ratio, then adds the milk or whatever liquid of choice as the other half a bit later in the recipe. But if you are using 100% GM, how does that work? Is it that you are making up for the water part not being GM by adding GM powder to the goat milk you are adding later?

 

[penelopejane]

Could you please explain how that works? I thought the split method means that one does a 1:1 lye /water ratio, then adds the milk or whatever liquid of choice as the other half a bit later in the recipe. But if you are using 100% GM, how does that work? Is it that you are making up for the water part not being GM by adding GM powder to the goat milk you are adding later?

Yes that's exactly right.
It won't work if you have your own goats and want to use their milk.

 

[mx5inpenn]

Could you please explain how that works? I thought the split method means that one does a 1:1 lye /water ratio, then adds the milk or whatever liquid of choice as the other half a bit later in the recipe. But if you are using 100% GM, how does that work? Is it that you are making up for the water part not being GM by adding GM powder to the goat milk you are adding later?

I do 100% milk with split method by evaporating the milk. I reduce it to half its volume, which is removing water that is naturally there. When adding it back with the lye, its the same amount I removed.

I soap at room temp and add honey and milk to my oils before lye. I don't insulate or cpop for the milk and honey recipe I use. I just leave it sit on the counter, cardboard over the top. It gels quickly and all the way through. I do keep an eye on it for several hours just in case. ☺ I do have to cut it at about 12-16 hours.

 

[IrishLass]

Could you please explain how that works? I thought the split method means that one does a 1:1 lye /water ratio, then adds the milk or whatever liquid of choice as the other half a bit later in the recipe. But if you are using 100% GM, how does that work? Is it that you are making up for the water part not being GM by adding GM powder to the goat milk you are adding later?

Yes. As with Penelopejane, that's how I do it, too.


IrishLass

 

[Dreamer]

Thank you very much for the clarifications penelopejane and IrishLass, as well as for yet another way to do it using 100% GM, mx6inpenn. I must say, simply adding the powder sounds easier than concentrating the GM. However, I can definitely see the benefits of removing water from the GM method if one already has goats and is using one's own GM. This way one doesn't have to buy the powder.

 

[soapmaker]

I have always soaped cool and refrigerated because I hail from a background of mainly making goat milk soap. I have always used 100% full fat goat milk frozen into ice cubes and quite enjoy the process, I don't find it a bother and love the soap. I use only natural colours like madder root and paprika powder and find the results suit me. To me, all natural soap shouldn't be too brightly coloured. (The only natural colourant I can't get to grips with is alkanet root, unless I want battleship grey soap - which on the whole I don't. Maybe CPOP or HP would help there or else I've just got a duff batch of root). Also (touch wood) I have never experienced soap volcanoes, alien brain, glycerine rivers or soda ash. I might be just lucky, or is it because I always soap cool? What do other cool soapers think?

Interesting about gelled soap being harder and lasting longer though. That hadn't occurred to me. But difficult to test. I might give it a go to see if I can tell the difference, so thanks for that insight.

You ask what do other soapers think? I also am a cool soaper. But always got ash until I did a greater water discount. Now I just let my molds sit on the counter, uncovered, uninsulated and no ash. SL makes my bar harder.

 

[Dannyritz]

Just to confirm, are these the steps for honey soap?

1. Add 20 ml (1 tablespoon per pound of oil) of honey to the lye and water solution
2. Blend oils and water/lye/honey solution to trace
3. Add to mold and put the mold in the oven for an hour at 100 f (roughly 40 c)
4 Turn oven off and leave overnight?

Or do you just preheat the oven at 100 f and turn it off before putting the mold in? I have an individual cavity mold. Will that change the temperature of the batter?

Also what temperature should the oils and lye be before blending them? Roughly 115 f?

 

[penelopejane]

Preheat the oven to 110*f (42*c) turn it off and wrap your soap in a towel and leave it in the oven for 12-18 hours without peeking.

For me in my climate individual cavity molds really need wrapping. I’d put them on a board or tray, wait for them to set up a little, cover then with plastic wrap, and put a towel over them and then put them in the turned off oven.

I soap with my oils and lye about 110*c to avoid stearic spots and to ensure gel. Some people soap cooler.

Adding your honey to the lye takes the heat out of the honey.

I use this method even when I add the honey directly to the oils, but I only add 1/2 tblsp ppo. If you use more and add directly to the oils you might have to watch your soap the first time or add your honey directly to your lye to ensure it doesn’t overheat.

 

[IrishLass]

Hi Danny-

1) Yes, that's the same amount of honey I like to use. The way I do it is to dilute the honey with just a little bit of water to make it less thick/viscous, then I add it to my cooled-off lye solution.

2) Yes...... Also- for what it's worth, my soaping temp is between 110 - 120 degrees F. I soap that warm because of the type of high-melt fats/butters I use in my formula, and also because I soap with a 33% lye concentration and I want my soap to achieve full gel. It won't achieve full gel with my formula if I let the temp of the batter to go below 110F, even in spite of having the honey in the mix, because adding honey to the lye water like I do eliminates its natural propensity to cause the soap batter to really heat up like it normally does if added to the batter instead of to the lye solution first.

3) Once I add the batter to the mold, I cover my mold (a wooden slab mold) with its cover then lay a few cloth diapers over the cover and put it into a preheated 110 degree oven. Once in the oven, I then turn the oven off immediately and let the soap sit there overnight unmolested.

Since you are working with an individual cavity mold, I would take Penelope's advice to place on a board, cover with plastic and cover over the plastic with towels.

IrishLass