Concave soap

[candicec003]

Hello soapers. I have noticed with my milk soap made with full water, then add half the value of water in milk, turns out fairly concave after curing. I make two different milk soaps. A goats milk soap that is full milk, i don't use any water with this one. The second one i make is a coconut milk soap but i use full water then add milk after. I do this with the coconut milk because it behaves differently than the goat milk when the lye is added to it, (the milks are frozen cubes when lye is added). When i add the lye to the frozen coconut milk, it turns into a sticky gooey mess, this is why i don't use full milk with the coconut milk soap and just add it chilled after. Anyone else have this problem? How can i help this without adding full milk because it doesn't seem to be an option since it turns into a gooey mess when the lye is added directly to the frozen coconut milk. Thanks

 

[toxikon]

High water content will definitely result in warped bars as the water evaporates. I always use a water discount and never experience weird bar shapes!

Using a milk with high fat content will always be a bit tricky, because the lye will begin saponifying the fats as you mix them together.

I don't have much experience working with milks, I don't have the patience for it. I just use powdered goat milk added directly to my oils to make life easier. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

 

[Susie]

This is in the liquid soap forum, would one of the admin/mods be so kind as to relocate it?

Your sticky gooey mess is probably caused by saponification of the oils in the coconut milk. It will work itself out with the assistance of the stick blender. I don't like to do this method, either.

Are you using full water + coconut milk, or half water to the NaOH + coconut milk to the oils? If you are doing the former, that is the problem, too much liquid. If the latter, it should turn out OK.

 

[Obsidian]

I could be misunderstanding but it sounds like you are using full water + your milk, that is just too much liquid and will make your bars warp.

When using coconut milk, only use enough water to fully dissolve your lye. Add the rest of the liquid as coconut milk directly to your oils and blend well. When you use milks, you need to discount your water by however much milk you are using.

 

[Seawolfe]

What do you mean by "made with full water, then add half the value of water in milk". That sounds like a ratio of 2 parts water to 1 part lye and then 1 part milk for a total of 3 parts liquid and 1 part lye and that's just crazy lotta liquid and only 25% lye. A more typical ratio would be 1 part water to 1 part lye and then 1 part milk - for a total of 2 parts liquid to 1 part lye, or ~ 33% lye solution.

 

[SoapEh]

Coconut milks can have more than just coconut milk in them. They may have salts and sugars, other preservatives, and may also contain things like 'locust bean gum' and other emulsifiers, designed to stop the product from separating while it sits on the shelf. If you're using a brand with ingredients other than coconut milk and water, the additional ingredients could be what's creating the sticky, funky mess you're encountering. A little salt probably won't be an issue. Likewise, a tiny bit of sugar. But who knows what happens when you add carageenan, xanthan gum, guar gum, various vitamin compounds, colourants, thickeners, artificial flavours...

I buy powdered coconut milk -- it's similar to buying powdered goat's or cow's milk, you can either toss it in as a powder, or reconstitute it in water and soap with it that way. It's sold in my local health food store as an alternative to coffee creamers, so it's extremely fine-ground, designed to dissolve instantly in liquid, and (obviously) completely food safe. One other benefit is you can open it and use as little or as much as you want, and reclose the package, and it's not going to go off. With a can of coconut milk, it's use it or lose it.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...the additional ingredients could be what's creating the sticky, funky mess you're encountering..."

Possibly, but I've not seen this happen when I've used coconut milk from various sources. I suspect the over-abundance of water-based liquid in the OP's recipe is the key problem.

 

[candicec003]

I could be misunderstanding but it sounds like you are using full water + your milk, that is just too much liquid and will make your bars warp.

When using coconut milk, only use enough water to fully dissolve your lye. Add the rest of the liquid as coconut milk directly to your oils and blend well. When you use milks, you need to discount your water by however much milk you are using.

I use the soapcalc lye calculator. How would i figure out the minimum anount of water to dissolve the lye?

What do you mean by "made with full water, then add half the value of water in milk". That sounds like a ratio of 2 parts water to 1 part lye and then 1 part milk for a total of 3 parts liquid and 1 part lye and that's just crazy lotta liquid and only 25% lye. A more typical ratio would be 1 part water to 1 part lye and then 1 part milk - for a total of 2 parts liquid to 1 part lye, or ~ 33% lye solution.

Yes i now can see that i am using too much liquid. i use a 2.4 : 1 water : lye ration, then i was also adding half the weight of water in coconut milk :???:

Coconut milks can have more than just coconut milk in them. They may have salts and sugars, other preservatives, and may also contain things like 'locust bean gum' and other emulsifiers, designed to stop the product from separating while it sits on the shelf. If you're using a brand with ingredients other than coconut milk and water, the additional ingredients could be what's creating the sticky, funky mess you're encountering. A little salt probably won't be an issue. Likewise, a tiny bit of sugar. But who knows what happens when you add carageenan, xanthan gum, guar gum, various vitamin compounds, colourants, thickeners, artificial flavours...

I buy powdered coconut milk -- it's similar to buying powdered goat's or cow's milk, you can either toss it in as a powder, or reconstitute it in water and soap with it that way. It's sold in my local health food store as an alternative to coffee creamers, so it's extremely fine-ground, designed to dissolve instantly in liquid, and (obviously) completely food safe. One other benefit is you can open it and use as little or as much as you want, and reclose the package, and it's not going to go off. With a can of coconut milk, it's use it or lose it.

I'm liking the powdered coconut milk idea. I am using organic coconut milk. No fillers or additives

 

[DeeAnna]

Here are a couple of articles I've writtenthat you might find helpful --

Calculating fat content from nutrition labels. Do you ignore the fat (or water) added when you use coconut milk in your soap? Maybe you shouldn't! https://classicbells.com/soap/nutritionLabel.html

Full water and other drippy myths. Want more consistent results when soaping? Explore better ways to calculate the water for your soap recipes. https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.html

 

[penelopejane]

Yes i now can see that i am using too much liquid. i use a 2.4 : 1 water : lye ration, then i was also adding half the weight of water in coconut milk :???:

Yes that's your problem! :mrgreen:

Do read DeeAnnas articles listed above. They are good.