Cold process liquid soap?

[Amna Tasneem]

Dear soapers

If left uncooked, how long will liquid soap take to saponify? I'm planning on using bastille recipe with glycerine for dissolving KOH
Please advise.
I've seen numerous tutorials for liquid soap making, and have successfully made three small batches with the advised cook times, over the last year and a half. But then there are tutorials for cold process liquid soap, and I'm a bit skeptical...
Thanks for your advise in advance.

 

[shunt2011]

It’s not recommended to add the lye to the glycerine. There is a long excellent thread here on glycerine liquid soap. You don’t have to cook LS long at all.

 

[Andrew]

you can add KOH to the glycerin easily and safely, but you need to heat it up in order for the KOH to dissolve. Once it is dissolved at about 200˚ you may as well hot process it with the oils. You could just mix it up, put on the pot, and let it cool overnight. But water dilution is much faster hot as well so I do not see any advantages to cold processing liquid soap.

 

[Amna Tasneem]

you can add KOH to the glycerin easily and safely, but you need to heat it up in order for the KOH to dissolve. Once it is dissolved at about 200˚ you may as well hot process it with the oils. You could just mix it up, put on the pot, and let it cool overnight. But water dilution is much faster hot as well so I do not see any advantages to cold processing liquid soap.

Thank you Andrew. I've done a batch since, using glycerine, and have kept it aside. The problem with slow cookers is that they are rated 110V, and here we get 220V supply. I bought a cooker about 2 years back and have tried three step down transformers since, with zero success. Oddly, in India, getting a good transformer for domestic use is very hard. Hence I thought of cold process liquid soap.
Thanks again

 

[Lankan]

Here in Sri Lanka also It's not possible to find slow cookers and even if we find it'd be considerable investment.

I use to make CPLS for household use. what I'm going to describe is the process I've mastered over couple of batches of CPLS. what I've used to do is dissolve KOH in distilled water and add desired amount of glycerin during the stick blending process.

My Palm + Coconut + Castor blend would take close to 1 hours to reach the trace and fully solidify. If we use the stick blender continuously the blender would become increasingly hot as the batter get thicken. So I would stick blend for 5 minutes, give 5 minutes break then stick blend for another 5 minutes. this would allow not frying the blender. After about 30- 40 minutes,I'll switch to the hand wisk, instead of the stick blender, This would allow me to feel the thickness of the blend as it reach the trace. I'll only stop once it solidifies and becomes like the hard butter. Will do a quick zap test at this stage. I've read that once CPLS reaches this stage the saponification is over. However I'd leave it as is for 24 hours before diluting. Any excess is kept in refrigerator to avoid rancidity.

Finally I used to thicken the diluted (3:1) soap using household salt, I encountered a problem the soap thickened in room temperature (tropical country) tend to develop clots/ solids when kept in Air conditioned environment. hence I use to leave the diluted soap prior to thickening in the refrigerator for about 30 minutes, then I'll thicken the soap using salt once the soap cools down by about 8 - 10C from room temperature. this allows me not to thicken the soap too much and avoid my soap developing solids when left in Air conditioned environment or during rainy days.

That's all what I know of CPLS. Hope this helps

 

[earlene]

Dear soapers

If left uncooked, how long will liquid soap take to saponify? I'm planning on using bastille recipe with glycerine for dissolving KOH
Please advise.
I've seen numerous tutorials for liquid soap making, and have successfully made three small batches with the advised cook times, over the last year and a half. But then there are tutorials for cold process liquid soap, and I'm a bit skeptical...
Thanks for your advise in advance.

Amna, there are many soapers here at SMF who have a lot of experience making LS via the CP method. Irish Lass uses the CP method for making Glycerin LS. Here is a link to her post of how she mixes the glycerin and lye: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soaping-101-liquid-soapmaking-video.46114/#post-428636

When you read that, you will notice it is done with room temperature glycerin to start.

And here is a link to her post containing a video on the method: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soaping-101-liquid-soapmaking-video.46114/#post-428988

You don't need to use the slow cooker. You can also do this on the stove or if you have a hotplate, use that with a pot.

Here is a link to discussion on making LS on the stovetop: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/have-i-burnt-my-soap.70436/ Notice the suggestion to use a double boiler (or Bain Marie).

 

[IrishLass]

Dear soapers

If left uncooked, how long will liquid soap take to saponify? I'm planning on using bastille recipe with glycerine for dissolving KOH
Please advise.
I've seen numerous tutorials for liquid soap making, and have successfully made three small batches with the advised cook times, over the last year and a half. But then there are tutorials for cold process liquid soap, and I'm a bit skeptical...
Thanks for your advise in advance.

Hello Amna- As Earlene mentioned, I make Cold process LS using glycerin. I understand your skepticism, but there's truly no need to cook the soap at all to saponification, so there's really no need for a slow cooker at all. It will indeed saponify all on it's own. I am living proof of this, because I myself don't use a slow cooker and my batter saponifies perfectly fine on its own without any added heat.

Depending on which KOH-dissolving method I use, my batter saponifies either within 6 hours, or within about 20 minutes. For example, if I add my KOH to room temp glycerin and heat to boiling on my stovetop until dissolved, as spelled out in the first link Earlene supplied in her post^^^, my LS batter will take about 6 hours to saponify all on its own to the paste stage without any work on my part at all. But if I dissolve my KOH in an equal amount of water and add my normal recipe amount of glycerin to it before adding to my melted oils/fats (as I spell out in this post: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soaping-101-liquid-soapmaking-video.46114/page-6#post-452730 ), it takes roughly 20 minutes or so to saponify.

You don't need a slow cooker for dilution, either. You can either choose to dilute with heat on the stovetop, or you can dilute off the heat on the counter. The latter method takes a few days, but I've done that as well.


IrishLass

 

[Nate5700]

The problem with slow cookers is that they are rated 110V, and here we get 220V supply. I bought a cooker about 2 years back and have tried three step down transformers since, with zero success.

I've never had to use a step down transformer in my house since I have 120V service, but being an electrical engineer your post has keywords that perk my curiosity. Volts, transformer, etc. I wonder what one would use for a step-down in a household application.

I don't know off the top of my head how much power (watts) a slow cooker would use, but it's probably not low, at least in terms of small kitchen appliances. You definitely would want something not just for the rated voltage but the power you're using as well. I don't know what products are available but it sounds like they're hard to find in India.

Sorry if I'm getting the thread off-track, but I see this kind of problem and I want to solve it. It's what I do.

 

[Andrew]

Thank you Andrew. I've done a batch since, using glycerine, and have kept it aside. The problem with slow cookers is that they are rated 110V, and here we get 220V supply. I bought a cooker about 2 years back and have tried three step down transformers since, with zero success. Oddly, in India, getting a good transformer for domestic use is very hard. Hence I thought of cold process liquid soap.
Thanks again

Anything you can do in a slow cooker you can do on the stovetop. Here is a good video to get started.

 

[DeeAnna]

The real point to be made here is there are many ways to accomplish this goal. A crock pot is only one alternative among several equally good options. I have two crock pots and I've never used either one for liquid soap making. Don't get caught up in trying to find gadget and transformers -- making liquid soap is as much or more about the technique as the equipment used.

 

[Amna Tasneem]

Here in Sri Lanka also It's not possible to find slow cookers and even if we find it'd be considerable investment.

I use to make CPLS for household use. what I'm going to describe is the process I've mastered over couple of batches of CPLS. what I've used to do is dissolve KOH in distilled water and add desired amount of glycerin during the stick blending process.

My Palm + Coconut + Castor blend would take close to 1 hours to reach the trace and fully solidify. If we use the stick blender continuously the blender would become increasingly hot as the batter get thicken. So I would stick blend for 5 minutes, give 5 minutes break then stick blend for another 5 minutes. this would allow not frying the blender. After about 30- 40 minutes,I'll switch to the hand wisk, instead of the stick blender, This would allow me to feel the thickness of the blend as it reach the trace. I'll only stop once it solidifies and becomes like the hard butter. Will do a quick zap test at this stage. I've read that once CPLS reaches this stage the saponification is over. However I'd leave it as is for 24 hours before diluting. Any excess is kept in refrigerator to avoid rancidity.

Finally I used to thicken the diluted (3:1) soap using household salt, I encountered a problem the soap thickened in room temperature (tropical country) tend to develop clots/ solids when kept in Air conditioned environment. hence I use to leave the diluted soap prior to thickening in the refrigerator for about 30 minutes, then I'll thicken the soap using salt once the soap cools down by about 8 - 10C from room temperature. this allows me not to thicken the soap too much and avoid my soap developing solids when left in Air conditioned environment or during rainy days.

That's all what I know of CPLS. Hope this helps

Wow! Thanks, Lankan. Yes your tips seem to be nice. I'll definitely be trying that method for the next batch.
But what is the clarity at the end of 24hours? I've left mine for almost a week now, and it looked perfectly fine clarity wise,but when I tried to dilute a bit last night it turned a bit turbid, i.e. clarity was not there.

Yes,i gets very hot here as well, and just 2-3 months from now humidity is going to be unbearable. So I guess I'll just use up my current batch and then get on with the next one as you suggested.

Anything you can do in a slow cooker you can do on the stovetop. Here is a good video to get started.

L

I always feared that the soap touching the bottom of the pan will burn on the stove top. But let me try today evening.

The real point to be made here is there are many ways to accomplish this goal. A crock pot is only one alternative among several equally good options. I have two crock pots and I've never used either one for liquid soap making. Don't get caught up in trying to find gadget and transformers -- making liquid soap is as much or more about the technique as the equipment used.

Thanks Anna, yes I'm going to try with an induction cook top tonight.

I've never had to use a step down transformer in my house since I have 120V service, but being an electrical engineer your post has keywords that perk my curiosity. Volts, transformer, etc. I wonder what one would use for a step-down in a household application.

I don't know off the top of my head how much power (watts) a slow cooker would use, but it's probably not low, at least in terms of small kitchen appliances. You definitely would want something not just for the rated voltage but the power you're using as well. I don't know what products are available but it sounds like they're hard to find in India.

Sorry if I'm getting the thread off-track, but I see this kind of problem and I want to solve it. It's what I do.

Nate, thanks. Yes, I used a 1000 Watt transformer and then a 2000 W and then again a 1500 W. The cooker is rated 1000 W. But I guess I'll be trying cooking it on an induction cook top next.
I'm also a bit of a nerd , Physics was my favorite all through so I guess I'm also complicating things that way.

 

[Lankan]

Wow! Thanks, Lankan. Yes your tips seem to be nice. I'll definitely be trying that method for the next batch.
But what is the clarity at the end of 24hours? I've left mine for almost a week now, and it looked perfectly fine clarity wise,but when I tried to dilute a bit last night it turned a bit turbid, i.e. clarity was not there.

Yes,i gets very hot here as well, and just 2-3 months from now humidity is going to be unbearable. So I guess I'll just use up my current batch and then get on with the next one as you suggested.

L

I always feared that the soap touching the bottom of the pan will burn on the stove top. But let me try today evening.

The 24 hours I've mentioned is before dilution, during that time the soap paste will be yellowish or off white color and not transparent. below one a batch soon after it reached the trace.



It becomes fully transparent & clear once diluted, again looses the transparency when we thicken it with salt and comes to honey like consistency, which I prefer over the water like clarity. I use food coloring instead of pigment colors, which is easy to handle in small quantities.

 

[Susie]

I, too, use IrishLass' liquid glycerin soap recipe and method. Works a charm. I tend, however, to melt my oils and then use the hot lye water to mix with the oils. It speeds gel and speeds up the making of the soap. I typically put a lid on it at either emulsion or paste stages and come back in half an hour once the kitchen is cleaned up. By then it is gelled. I just don't get why someone would want to take more time waiting for the KOH water to cool before blending.

 

[Amna Tasneem]

Here in Sri Lanka also It's not possible to find slow cookers and even if we find it'd be considerable investment.

I use to make CPLS for household use. what I'm going to describe is the process I've mastered over couple of batches of CPLS. what I've used to do is dissolve KOH in distilled water and add desired amount of glycerin during the stick blending process.

My Palm + Coconut + Castor blend would take close to 1 hours to reach the trace and fully solidify. If we use the stick blender continuously the blender would become increasingly hot as the batter get thicken. So I would stick blend for 5 minutes, give 5 minutes break then stick blend for another 5 minutes. this would allow not frying the blender. After about 30- 40 minutes,I'll switch to the hand wisk, instead of the stick blender, This would allow me to feel the thickness of the blend as it reach the trace. I'll only stop once it solidifies and becomes like the hard butter. Will do a quick zap test at this stage. I've read that once CPLS reaches this stage the saponification is over. However I'd leave it as is for 24 hours before diluting. Any excess is kept in refrigerator to avoid rancidity.

Finally I used to thicken the diluted (3:1) soap using household salt, I encountered a problem the soap thickened in room temperature (tropical country) tend to develop clots/ solids when kept in Air conditioned environment. hence I use to leave the diluted soap prior to thickening in the refrigerator for about 30 minutes, then I'll thicken the soap using salt once the soap cools down by about 8 - 10C from room temperature. this allows me not to thicken the soap too much and avoid my soap developing solids when left in Air conditioned environment or during rainy days.

That's all what I know of CPLS. Hope this helps

...
Wow! Visiting the forum after ages! Your response is so detailed and informative. Thank you!
You’re right about tropical/ subtropical climate playing havoc with soap. And I’ll try salt for thickening with my next dilution.

I’ve tried three more batches of CPLS with full success. I've superfatted two of them slightly at 3%, and these have been brilliant as handwash, body wash and The third batch was made for laundry using fryer oil leftovers that I collected at home over a period of 5 months, plus coconut oil, zero super fat. And that’s worked well too!

 

[Lankan]

...
Wow! Visiting the forum after ages! Your response is so detailed and informative. Thank you!
You’re right about tropical/ subtropical climate playing havoc with soap. And I’ll try salt for thickening with my next dilution.

I’ve tried three more batches of CPLS with full success. I've superfatted two of them slightly at 3%, and these have been brilliant as handwash, body wash and The third batch was made for laundry using fryer oil leftovers that I collected at home over a period of 5 months, plus coconut oil, zero super fat. And that’s worked well too!

Hi, Since last post, I have tried using HEC for thickening than salt. getting HEC to properly incorporate is a challenge, different forums suggest different approaches. after a few test cases, I finally managed to get it right. Now my soap doesn't suffer from issues which we face when using salt. If interested let me know I can detail that as well.

On a side note, I would avoid super-fatting if I want super clarity.