Coconut Milk

[HutCar92]

I was just wondering if adding coconut milk, say for half the liquid in a soap batch plus having coconut oil in the soap would cause it to be drying? I use about 20% CO in my batches. I just did a batch with coconut milk in it about 5 weeks ago, I tried it yesterday and today and thought it made my skin more dry then when i use bars I made without the coconut milk. My boyfriend says it doesn't dry his skin, so I wanted to see what others experienced....

 

[Hazel]

I never thought of that but I think you are right. I wondered why I never cared as much for batches in which I used CM. I made my batches similar to the way you did - I used 25% CO and at least half was CM if not more because in some I only used enough water to dissolve the lye. I decided to get out an older CM bar and try it before I wrote a reply. It's not as drying as when I first used a bar but it's definitely more drying than the same recipe made with buttermilk or cream. Thanks for posting and mentioning this because I wouldn't have realized since I stopped using CM over a year ago.

Does your BF have an oilier skin type than you? If so, then he probably wouldn't find the soap as drying as you. Give him the whole batch and say it's a gift because you love him.

 

[judymoody]

I find that men generally prefer soap that is more on the cleansing side.

If you don't calculate the fat that's in the coconut milk as part of your recipe, I don't know if it would be more drying. I was in a lather additive swap some months ago and when I did the math, I found that when I subbed coconut milk for all of the water, it effectively doubled my superfat from 8 to 16%. The excess fat wouldn't be saponified.

This isn't a definitive answer by any means. It's an interesting question.

 

[HutCar92]

I have a much drier and more sensitive skin, hes Italian and def has more oily skin. Maybe thats why he loves salt bars and I hate them. I think im just going back to no CM but I just made a large batch using it....maybe it will be ok. :| LOL...thanks for all of the replies

 

[Hazel]

@ judymoody

I only used 5%-6% SF for this batch. I guess I assumed it would be like other milk liquids I had used since it was coconut milk. My skin still feels a bit dry from using it over half an hour ago. Since lye chemically alters CO and it becomes more drying, why wouldn't it affect coconut milk the same way? Even doubling the SF with the addition of CM, the SF would still be too low for my skin type which is dry and sensitive like HutCar92's. On the other hand, I could just be more sensitive to CO. I did find out over time that I prefer 20%-25% CO in my batches and 7%-8% SF.

This is interesting and I hope other people post about their experiences. I'd especially like to know if my theory about lye altering CM is correct or if I'm totally off base.

@HutCar92

I love salt bars but I only use 85% CO in them and I use 20% SF for water and 17%-18% if I'm adding cream or buttermilk. I like to add avocado or high oleic sunflower for the other oil. Was the salt bars you tried made with 100% coconut oil?

 

[Lindy]

What a great discussion. This would never have occurred to me and I must admit I don't use coconut milk often... hmmmmm

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I haven't found coconut milk drying at all. I love it in soap. :wink:

 

[Hazel]

Out of curiosity, what percentage of CO and SF do you use?

 

[HutCar92]

My usual batch with all water/beer/coffee is 7% SF, but this batch since it was milk I dropped it to 5% and my CO is always 20%.

 

[judymoody]

@ judymoody

I only used 5%-6% SF for this batch. I guess I assumed it would be like other milk liquids I had used since it was coconut milk. My skin still feels a bit dry from using it over half an hour ago. Since lye chemically alters CO and it becomes more drying, why wouldn't it affect coconut milk the same way? Even doubling the SF with the addition of CM, the SF would still be too low for my skin type which is dry and sensitive like HutCar92's. On the other hand, I could just be more sensitive to CO. I did find out over time that I prefer 20%-25% CO in my batches and 7%-8% SF.

This is interesting and I hope other people post about their experiences. I'd especially like to know if my theory about lye altering CM is correct or if I'm totally off base.

I guess my thinking is that CO is drying when saponified but not as a free oil. Assuming that a good portion of the extra oil from the coconut milk would not be transformed by lye, it needn't necessarily be more drying. However, as we don't know exactly which oils the lye leaves behind, it may be that it saponifies a relatively higher % of the CO.

I'm not a trained chemist so a lot of this is guesswork. For what it's worth, I don't particularly like coconut milk in soap for a variety of reasons. In the lather additive swap, most of us were underwhelmed by the coconut milk soaps compared to the control (I did one with powder and one with canned milk). The lather was nothing extra, especially when compared to goat's milk. Kefir also performed well.

 

[Hazel]

My usual batch with all water/beer/coffee is 7% SF, but this batch since it was milk I dropped it to 5% and my CO is always 20%.

Sorry! I was asking Bubbles Galore what percentages she was using.

I guess my thinking is that CO is drying when saponified but not as a free oil. Assuming that a good portion of the extra oil from the coconut milk would not be transformed by lye, it needn't necessarily be more drying. However, as we don't know exactly which oils the lye leaves behind, it may be that it saponifies a relatively higher % of the CO.

I'm not a trained chemist so a lot of this is guesswork. For what it's worth, I don't particularly like coconut milk in soap for a variety of reasons. In the lather additive swap, most of us were underwhelmed by the coconut milk soaps compared to the control (I did one with powder and one with canned milk). The lather was nothing extra, especially when compared to goat's milk. Kefir also performed well.

I'm also guessing and I wish I had paid more attention in chemistry. However, I trust what you say because I know how knowledgeable you are about soapmaking. I"m also not as experienced as you. I used canned CM in several batches and wasn't impressed with them I made an assumption either my recipes weren't balanced well or something was wrong with me since people raved at how wonderful CM was in soap. I stopped using it because I found I liked cream, half and half or buttermilk over CM as an added liquid in my recipes. It seems my skin prefers lactic acid over lauric acid. :wink:

I did some searching and found very little info. Below is some info I found:

One of the most prominent components of coconut milk is coconut oil

Coconut milk - the saturated fat in coconut milk is mostly lauric acid

Wikipedia

Lauric acid, as a component of triglycerides, comprises about half of the fatty acid content in coconut oil, laurel oil, and in palm kernel oil

Like many other fatty acids, lauric acid is inexpensive, has a long shelf-life, and is non-toxic and safe to handle. It is mainly used for the production of soaps and cosmetics. For these purposes, lauric acid is neutralized with sodium hydroxide to give sodium laurate, which is a soap.

Soapcalc

Lauric acid in soap – hardness, cleansing and bubbly

Soap made with too much Lauric and/or Myristic Acid can irritate the skin by washing away not only the top dirty layer of oils, but also the protective layer of surface oils on the skin.

Sodium laurate is listed as an ingredient in some MP bases found on goplanetearth and Life of the Party brand. Aquatech-Skincare listed ingredients before saponification: “Coconut Oil Fatty Acids, Palm Kernel Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Deionized Water, Vegetable Glycerine, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sorbeth-40 (Sorbitol), Sodium Hydroxide**, Disodium EDTA, Citric Acid.
**Combined with de-ionized water to make "lye", adding to coconut, palm & olive oil.”

I saw sodium laurate listed as an ingredient on several retail web sites. I wasn’t going to add them to this but then I saw the Diva Choice site. I added the link because I thought some of her soaps were quite nice looking. I especially liked Crazy Cupid and Chocolate Strawberry.

I think it takes more lye to saponify coconut as compared to olive but I've read olive has a higher percentage of unsaponifiables (not sure if this is the correct term). It looks like I need to do more research.

 

[Guest]

coconut milk is loaded with exfoliating fatty acids and does not have all of the moisturizing properties of the whole unsaponified fat. when added along with whole co, the moisturizing properties of the whole fat are saponified and the exfoliating fatty acids-now increased by adding extra milk-are left with less to counter the exfoliation and can therefore be more drying... imo.

 

[new12soap]

Wow, great thread! I have only used coconut milk in salt bars, and when I mixed my lye with the CM I got instant soap on a stick from the fat in the milk. Never occured to me that the result may be as drying as excess CO, but makes sense.

I love the level of discourse amongst soapers, so very thorough and thoughtful!

 

[gladly]

Wow, so funny and such a great thread! Just a couple of weeks ago my honey and I started using a coconut milk shampoo soap I'd made and I had the same experience. It was soooo drying to my hair, and I was really disappointed because I thought it would do just the opposite. And, like you, my honey had no complaints. He loves it, but he loves all things coconut so just mentioning the coconut milk sold him, and this disqualifies his opinion lol.

 

[Seventeen Soaps]

Wow this is very interesting... I use a 350g tin of coconut milk (full water replacement) in a 1.5kg batch of oils at a 5% superfat, which doesn't account for the fats in the milk so I am guessing the superfat level is actually around 10% and I have never experienced it drying my skin out and everyone that has used it loves how creamy the soap is. I don't have oily skin and hubby has sensitive skin and he loves it too.

 

[HutCar92]

I tried it again, a different bar with a different fragrance, 1/2 coconut milk 1/2 water and my skin is not nearly as dry as it was with the other bar! So Im not sure if my skin adjusted or an extra week made it more mild, but I really like the lather it produces!!!!

 

[Soap Techniques]

I tried it again, a different bar with a different fragrance, 1/2 coconut milk 1/2 water and my skin is not nearly as dry as it was with the other bar!

Did you use the same recipe?