Coconut 76% vs Virgin Coconut Oil

[MissPpoodle]

Has anyone noticed that Soapmaking Friend has added Virgin Coconut oil to the options, and if you tick it, it changes the lye dramatically compared to the 76% Coconut oil. When I put the amounts in Brambleberry there is hardly any difference between virgin and 76% coconut oil for the Lye calculation.

 

[AliOop]

I just checked and got the same result! There shouldn't be any difference. Virgin coconut oil is 76º coconut oil.

Have you sent a message to alert the admins over on SoapmakingFriend?

 

[MissPpoodle]

Thanks, that explains why hubby didn't like the last back of soap as much, too much superfat. I wasn't sure if it was wrong, I will send messange to Soapmaking Friend.

 

[A-Polly]

That's interesting! I know Bramble Berry was carrying the Baraka virgin coconut oil (although they've since discontinued it) and the SAP value is a little different, 0.20 vs. 0.18; those numbers are rounded, and looks like the BB calculator uses 0.195 and 0.178 (which matches the info on the Baraka website). That's enough to make a difference but not a dramatic one.

LyeCalc has separate entries for 76° coconut, 92° coconut, virgin coconut, plus "coconut oil - all grades except virgin" — and the SAP values are the same for each, although the INS numbers vary. What are the SAP values shown on Soapmaking Friend for those oils? Seems odd that there should be a huge difference.

I use familiar old SoapCalc, which doesn't have a separate category for "virgin coconut oil", and had never noticed the line on other calculators!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

There's a thread or post by ResolvableOwl about the different SAPs for virgin versus refined coconut oil. Let me see if I can find it.

Edited: Okay, I found the thread, which is about the many issues with FA profiles in the soap c@lculators.

The post with the information about coconut oil is this one. key info is:
"it's not long since I read Kathrin's FAQ entry about coconut oil SAP – tl;dr for the non-German speakers: from anecdotal experience of some soapmakers, the “international standard” CO SAP = 0.183 appears too high, and she provides 0.1768 as a less tightly calculated SAP.)"

Via Google translate, I get the following for Kathrin's original text:
"Coconut oil (old VZ): If you select "coconut oil (old VZ)" in the soap c@lculator, the usual saponification number for coconut in most soap c@lculators is used (0,183). There are assumptions that this value is too high in most cases.
Coconut oil refined: My preferred source of coconut are the small, silver-wrapped cubes of coconut fat, so I asked the manufacturer for the saponification number for this product (0.1768). If you use this value, slightly lower NaOH values will be calculated.
Hardened coconut oil: Palmin is hydrogenated coconut fat and also has a slightly different saponification number (0.18036).
Coconut oil native: The saponification number here is the same as for refined coconut oil. I created this entry mainly so that it can be seen in the recipe that native coconut was used, and so that no one accidentally uses a too high number of saponifications."

I also posted in the original thread after reviewing the SAP information from Soaper's Choice.
"Soapers Choice, which is a subsidiary of a major edible and cosmetic oil distributor in the US, provides the SAPs for their oils in a downloadable pdf that is linked from the home page. It hasn’t been updated since 2020. For coconut oil, their numbers for NaOH SAP are:

coconut EV Organic .182
coconut organic rbd .178
coconut 76 .178

Perhaps the shift is due to processing?"

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I looked at the SMF C@lculator and the profile/SAP they've entered for coconut oil virgin is undoubtedly wrong. I know that when I create a custom oil in the SMF Calculator I have to enter the KOH SAP which is then used to calculate the NaOH SAP. It looks like someone entered the NaOH SAP into the form instead of KOH SAP, which then resulted in a very low calculated NaOH SAP.

@Yooper - can you get this fixed? Soaper's Choice gives the KOH SAP for virgin coconut oil as .257 and the NaOH SAP as .182. When I enter .257 for SAP using "add new" to create a custom profile in the SMF calculator, it returns a calculated SAP NaOH of .183, which is close enough.

 

[xavier244]

Has anyone noticed that Soapmaking Friend has added Virgin Coconut oil to the options, and if you tick it, it changes the lye dramatically compared to the 76% Coconut oil. When I put the amounts in Brambleberry there is hardly any difference between virgin and 76% coconut oil for the Lye calculation.

Hey! Yeah, I've noticed that too! Soapmaking Friend's lye calculator does show a significant difference in lye requirements between Virgin Coconut Oil and 76% Coconut Oil. But, like you, I've found that Brambleberry's calculator doesn't show much of a difference. I think it's because Virgin Coconut Oil typically has a slightly different fatty acid profile compared to 76% Coconut Oil, which affects its saponification value. Soapmaking Friend might be using a more specific saponification value for Virgin Coconut Oil, whereas Brambleberry's calculator might be using a more general value for Coconut Oil. Just a thought! Has anyone else experienced this difference?

 

[AliOop]

@xavier244 In the post above yours, @Mobjack Bay identified the problem; someone behind the scenes input the wrong SAP for virgin coconut oil. They need to fix this on the back end.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I went ahead and posted about this issue, and linked this thread, in the SMF calculator forum.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I went ahead and posted about this issue, and linked this thread, in the SMF calculator forum.

Good news! The entry for virgin coconut oil has been corrected.