cocoa butter: deodorized or not? BB or SC?

[JBot]

I've spent a very frustrating couple of hours searching the forum, but I still haven't found a clear answer.

I want to buy about 10 pounds of cocoa butter. The only one I've used so far is the regular type (NOT deodorized) from Bramble Berry. It does have a faint "chocolate" scent, but it's very mild, and I can't smell it in the finished soap. (That's a good thing; I DON'T want the finished soap to smell like chocolate.) I used it at 4.35%, added to my HP as a superfat after the cook.

Soaper's Choice has great prices for cocoa butter; they offer one that's "Conventional - Pure Prime Pressed - Food Grade - Golden," and one that's "USP Grade - Deodorized." If you've used either of these, what was your impression? Has anybody used both Bramble Berry's and Soaper's Choice standard cocoa butter? How do they compare in terms of odor?

Past forum discussions about whether cocoa butter can be smelled in the finished soap are all over the map, and it sounds like strength of the "chocolate" scent can vary quite a bit depending on where you buy it. I'd be totally happy if the scent of the "conventional" type from Soaper's Choice isn't any stronger than the one from Bramble Berry, but I'm nervous about buying a large quantity of the "conventional" type if it might have a strong odor.

I was perfectly willing to spend a little bit more to get the deodorized type from Soaper's Choice, until I started wondering whether the deodorizing process (I've read that it's done with steam) might destroy some of its beneficial properties, such as its naturally-occurring anti-oxidants, thereby reducing its shelf life. Anybody know whether the two types have different qualities, other than color and scent?

I'm using it to superfat hot process soap, so it won't be saponified, if that's relevant to its odor in soap.

I anxiously await your opinions! I need to make a decision and order something before my current (meager) supply runs out.

 

[lsg]

You can always use a fragrance oil such as Exotic Coconut to cover or compliment the scent.

 

[shunt2011]

I use SC pure prime pressed golden and have not trouble with it. I don't notice a chocolate scent from it after cure at all. I do usually scent my soaps though.

 

[dixiedragon]

I use the SC. I have never noticed a scent in the soap, but I do pick up a scent when I make lip balm. I don't think I've ever read of the scent surviving in soap. Especially considering that cocoa butter is usually a small (5-10) percentage of the oils in soap.

BTW, the lip balm scent is easily covered when I use flavors. I actually really love my unscented lipbalm b/c it has a natural honey/chocolate scent from the beeswax.

 

[hmlove1218]

It survived in mine, which sucked because I hate the smell of cocoa butter.. I used it at 10% but mine was from WSP, so I can't help the OP as I've never used anyone else's

 

[kumudini]

I bought cocoa butter from bulk apothecary, the natural, unrefined and non deodorized version. It has a strong chocolate scent, just like the one I bought from ED previously. while the scent carried over in the body butters (I used at 25% of the product), it didn't in the CP soaps although the soap in general had a not so pleasant smell. this was my first 2 batches, unscented and also had virgin shea butter.
If you want to go the refined route, it is better to buy the yellow or unbleached version, as per the BA site, refined cocoa butter has higher amounts of anti oxidants while the bleached version is stripped off of those.

 

[JBot]

You can always use a fragrance oil such as Exotic Coconut to cover or compliment the scent.

I use SC pure prime pressed golden and have not trouble with it. I don't notice a chocolate scent from it after cure at all. I do usually scent my soaps though.

I also scent most of my soaps, but I don't want ALL of them to have coconut or chocolate type scents; I like a lot of the "fresh" and "fruity" scents.

It survived in mine, which sucked because I hate the smell of cocoa butter.. I used it at 10% but mine was from WSP, so I can't help the OP as I've never used anyone else's

Yeah, this is the sort of feedback that makes me nervous. Were you doing CP?

I use the SC. I have never noticed a scent in the soap, but I do pick up a scent when I make lip balm. I don't think I've ever read of the scent surviving in soap. Especially considering that cocoa butter is usually a small (5-10) percentage of the oils in soap.

What percentage do you use in the lip balm?

I bought cocoa butter from bulk apothecary, the natural, unrefined and non deodorized version. It has a strong chocolate scent, just like the one I bought from ED previously. while the scent carried over in the body butters (I used at 25% of the product), it didn't in the CP soaps although the soap in general had a not so pleasant smell. this was my first 2 batches, unscented and also had virgin shea butter.

How much cocoa butter and shea butter did you use in your CP recipe, respectively?

Some of the remarks I've read about a surviving scent that doesn't smell like chocolate, but DOES smell kind of gross, makes me wonder whether it makes a difference if the cocoa butter is saponified/comes into contact with lye.

 

[shunt2011]

I've used it up to 15% with no smell after cure. However, I prefer Shea of cocoa personally. I use their unrefined beige and don't notice any smell for it either.

 

[kchaystack]

I think some of it is also how sensitive your nose is. I have unscented soap with shea and cocoa. I can't smell it in either at 10%. Both were unrefined. The shea does have a smell, but I do not think it is unpleasant. The cocoa I used was VERY strong smelling and there was no scent left over. It was from the local health food store, but I would not worry about scent. Just pick the most cost effective.

 

[dixiedragon]

Here's my lip balm recipe (from The Sage)
60 grams of Beeswax
75 grams <A title="Shea Butter" href="http://www.thesage.com/catalog/products/Shea-Butter.html" target=_blank>Shea Butter, Refined
45 grams <A title="Cocoa Butter, White Odorless" href="http://www.thesage.com/catalog/products/Cocoa-Butter-White-Odorless.html" target=_blank>White Cocoa Butter
120 grams Avocado Oil

I don't use white cocoa butter, I use regular prime pressed.

 

[kumudini]

How much cocoa butter and shea butter did you use in your CP recipe, respectively?

Some of the remarks I've read about a surviving scent that doesn't smell like chocolate, but DOES smell kind of gross, makes me wonder whether it makes a difference if the cocoa butter is saponified/comes into contact with lye.

Cocoa butter is 13% and Shea at 6.6%. Rest was CCPO.

 

[Obsidian]

I can slightly smell my coco butter in unscented soap when used at 10%, mine is from WSP though and it has a very strong scent. If I use it in any kind of lotion/body butter/balm, the scent comes through strongly.
If you don't want to risk the scent, buy the deodorized.

 

[hmlove1218]

Yeah, this is the sort of feedback that makes me nervous. Were you doing CP?

Yes it was CP. it was even fragrance and still came though. Perhaps I'm just sensitive to CB smell since I'd detest it so much, or perhaps WSPs was just really strong. I dunno

 

[IrishLass]

Kchaystack brings up a very good point about the different sensitivities of our noses and what they are able to detect or to not detect. A good example of that are all the lard soap threads we've had. lol

I've always used the natural kind of cocoa butter up until recently when I decided I wanted to try out the refined, for no other reason than 'just because'. With the natural cocoa butter, my nose has always been able to pick up on a faint cocoa scent in my CP the first day or 2 after unmolding/cutting, but it always fades to nothing from there on out as the FO takes over. Always.

My foot butter on the other hand is a different story, which for me is a good thing, though, because I like it scented with a light chocolate mint scent.

If you are unsure, just go with the refined/deodorized kind. I know you were wondering about whether the deodorized kind would retain all the natural goodies that are present in the unrefined kind, but if you are making lye-based soap with it, the point is really moot if you ask me.


IrishLass

 

[JBot]

Kchaystack brings up a very good point about the different sensitivities of our noses and what they are able to detect or to not detect. A good example of that are all the lard soap threads we've had. lol

I've always used the natural kind of cocoa butter up until recently when I decided I wanted to try out the refined, for no other reason than 'just because'. With the natural cocoa butter, my nose has always been able to pick up on a faint cocoa scent in my CP the first day or 2 after unmolding/cutting, but it always fades to nothing from there on out as the FO takes over. Always.

If you are unsure, just go with the refined/deodorized kind. I know you were wondering about whether the deodorized kind would retain all the natural goodies that are present in the unrefined kind, but if you are making lye-based soap with it, the point is really moot if you ask me.

I think that's true about scent perception varying from person to person. I myself have a very sensitive nose, which is why I was pleasantly surprised when the natural cocoa butter from BB had a mild smell out of the bag, and zero smell in the finished soap. But I was getting the distinct impression that the intensity of the scent could vary among different suppliers.

IL, what was your impression of the refined/deodorized? Did you get both from SC?

I ended up calling Soaper's Choice, leaving a message, and got a call back from Mike Lawson. He was great to talk to, and extremely helpful. He also recommended that I get the deodorized one if I was at all concerned about the smell.

There's not a huge price difference, so yes, I was mostly concerned with whether the deodorized one had a shorter shelf life or was inferior in terms of all those natural goodies. If I were making CP, you're right, it would probably be a moot point. But since I'm adding it after the cook in HP, I wondered if maybe it WOULD make a difference. Or were you thinking that the pH would neutralize those goodies even if they weren't directly exposed to lye?

It's my understanding that the refined stuff is deodorized via steam. Doesn't the natural/unrefined cocoa butter have to be melted anyway in order to make it into blocks? So either way, they're both exposed to heat. This is pure speculation, but wouldn't that imply that if any of the beneficial properties are destroyed by heat, then the natural and the deodorized stuff are affected equally?

I wouldn't mind spending the money to get some of the natural stuff, but if I didn't like it, then I'd be stuck with 10 pounds of it, and I hate to waste ingredients. Maybe I can get somebody to trade a couple of ounces with me.

These are good "problems" to have. :grin:

 

[kumudini]

It's my understanding that the refined stuff is deodorized via steam. Doesn't the natural/unrefined cocoa butter have to be melted anyway in order to make it into blocks? So either way, they're both exposed to heat. This is pure speculation, but wouldn't that imply that if any of the beneficial properties are destroyed by heat, then the natural and the deodorized stuff are affected equally?

I think there is a difference in gently heating it for our typical use versus blasting it with high heat steam.

I wouldn't mind spending the money to get some of the natural stuff, but if I didn't like it, then I'd be stuck with 10 pounds of it, and I hate to waste ingredients. Maybe I can get somebody to trade a couple of ounces with me.

I would be willing to trade my BA cocoa butter for anything but I guess you want to try the SC one.

These are good "problems" to have. :grin:

yep, easily tackled!

oh, I don't even know how to answer to diff paragraphs separately so my response is not incorporated in to the message im quoting.

 

[Aline]

Batches can vary so if you are ordering 10 lbs I would ask the company if it is from the same batch as the previous one you purchased.