Cloudy LS

[Traumabrew]

I just made another batch of LS but this time it is cloudy. I know that means there are unsaponified fatty acids present. Is there anything I can do to fix this?

 

[IrishLass]

I would add some PS80 to it, if you have any on hand.


IrishLass

 

[Traumabrew]

Is there a recommended amount to use? Should I start out with like 1% and just add 1% up to 3 or 4 %?

 

[biarine]

My avocado and rhassoul is cloudy too.

 

[Susie]

Some fats make cloudy soap. Nothing wrong with that. It also does not mean that there are unsaponified fats. If you have unsaponified fats, they usually float on top. Then if you do, use PS80 to bring it together.

To see if you have usable soap, you need to zap test the paste to see if you have excess lye. If not, dilute.

 

[DeeAnna]

And sometimes cloudiness has nothing to do with fatty acids or fats. Unsaponifiable chemicals, additives, cool temperature, etc. can cause LS to cloud.

 

[Traumabrew]

Ok, thanks. I guess where I am getting confused was that the stuff I have read about LS making has you putting a small amount of paste into boiling water and checking for clarity. I zap tested it and it was fine. I have been diluting it now for 48 hours, almost completely dissolved. I initially started diluting at a 1:1 ratio but increased it to 1.5:1 (water to paste) because it was not diluting fully. Ill see if the extra water will clear it up some by dilution.

 

[IrishLass]

There's more than one method for making liquid soap out there in soap-land- i.e., the Catherine Failor method, the no-cook/cold-process method, the glycerin method, etc.. . From what I understand, the practice of checking for clarity is a pretty much exclusive to Catherine Failor's method (although others might use it as well), which in my opinion seems to unfairly equate clear soap with being good soap, and unclear soap with being bad soap, which isn't necessarily true at all. I personally never do the clarity test because I find it completely unnecessary.


IrishLass

 

[DeeAnna]

"...the stuff I have read about LS making has you putting a small amount of paste into boiling water and checking for clarity..."

I know what you're talking about. When it works, it does tell you the soap doesn't contain excess fats or fatty acids. But when it doesn't work, it doesn't mean there is a problem, just that there could be one.

If a person made the same LS recipe multiple times and one time the LS was cloudy when the other times it was clear, then I'd say there might be an issue. But if you make a recipe one time and it's cloudy, you need to look at the other factors in the recipe to decide if the cloudiness is something to be concerned about or not.

A way to determine if the cloudiness is fatty acids or fats is to add a gram or two of dry KOH to the cloudy soap sample. Gently swirl or stir until the KOH dissolves. The sample will warm up a bit, and that's no problem. Let the sample sit for awhile -- up to a day -- and see what it looks like after the KOH has a chance to react. You can add another gram or two if you think it needs it. If the sample clears, then you have your answer. If you're careful, you can back calculate how much additional KOH is needed to react with any excess fat or fatty acid in the remaining paste.

Another option to take is to just dilute the soap and let anything that wants to settle out or float do what it needs to do. It might take a few days or weeks. Then skim any floaties off the good soap or decant the good soap off any sediment.

Or you can just use the soap as-is and not worry or fuss about fixing it. If there's only a slight cloudiness, that's much more satisfying than a lot of fussing.

 

[Spice]

"...the stuff I have read about LS making has you putting a small amount of paste into boiling water and checking for clarity..."

I know what you're talking about. When it works, it does tell you the soap doesn't contain excess fats or fatty acids. But when it doesn't work, it doesn't mean there is a problem, just that there could be one.

If a person made the same LS recipe multiple times and one time the LS was cloudy when the other times it was clear, then I'd say there might be an issue. But if you make a recipe one time and it's cloudy, you need to look at the other factors in the recipe to decide if the cloudiness is something to be concerned about or not.

A way to determine if the cloudiness is fatty acids or fats is to add a gram or two of dry KOH to the cloudy soap sample. Gently swirl or stir until the KOH dissolves. The sample will warm up a bit, and that's no problem. Let the sample sit for awhile -- up to a day -- and see what it looks like after the KOH has a chance to react. You can add another gram or two if you think it needs it. If the sample clears, then you have your answer. If you're careful, you can back calculate how much additional KOH is needed to react with any excess fat or fatty acid in the remaining paste.

Another option to take is to just dilute the soap and let anything that wants to settle out or float do what it needs to do. It might take a few days or weeks. Then skim any floaties off the good soap or decant the good soap off any sediment.

Or you can just use the soap as-is and not worry or fuss about fixing it. If there's only a slight cloudiness, that's much more satisfying than a lot of fussing.

I was wondering about my LS soap having sediment too. I only have made 2 batches of LS, this last one had settled at the bottom, I made foam soap and it foam good, so I just let it go. Was soft.

 

[Susie]

I do not care if my soap is cloudy. Judgy people can go make their own soap.

 

[biarine]

I do not care if my soap is cloudy. Judgy people can go make their own soap.

I agreed Susie, if they don't like it hard luck.. they make their own.

 

[KristaY]

I do not care if my soap is cloudy. Judgy people can go make their own soap.

This gave me huge chuckle, Susie. I think that exact thing all the time! Not only with soap but also house cleaning, complicated cake decorating, routes I take to the grocery store, my hair style......

 

[mawarliar]

Oh God..

I've been cooking up my soap for 12 hours straight, and it still give me some cloudy result by dissolving itu into hot water..

And I already tried to give even more glycerin plus KOH..

:cry::cry:

Okay, let see what will happen next..

 

[BattleGnome]

What's your recipe? Certain oils are never clear, there isn't much you can do about those. At 12 hours I'd say if was going to be clear it would be clear

 

[mawarliar]

What's your recipe? Certain oils are never clear, there isn't much you can do about those. At 12 hours I'd say if was going to be clear it would be clear

My Recipe today :
50gr Palm Oil
50gr sunflower oil
50gr Buffalo Tallow
50gr Olive Oil Pomace

38,8 KOH (99%)
25gr Water
50gr Glycerin

After 12 hours, I add a little bit of glycerin and KOH..

Just doing some ZAP test, and it zap me again..
Yeah, absolutely zap me, just did add some KOH+glycerin :mrgreen::mrgreen:

I dunno, just going to cook it in low temperature in my slow cooker for another 3-4 hours so it won't be to lye heavy..

So, what would you think better to fix my recipe?

And one more question, could I use my liquid soap right away?
Because my other recipe, being clear but not bubbly enough..
I think that would be my mistake for throwing a lot of water when dissolve it..
Could it be better after I kept for a few weeks?

 

[DeeAnna]

"... I dunno, just going to cook it in low temperature in my slow cooker for another 3-4 hours so it won't be to lye heavy.. ..."

If you've been cooking a lye heavy soap for 12 hours, cooking it even longer won't help. It's time for you to STOP and THINK. Do not just keep trying things at random.

Did you not read my post #9 about the many things that can cause cloudiness? If so, please read carefully. You used palm, tallow, and pomace olive oil. All three will contribute to a cloudy soap. The palm and tallow due to the palmitic and stearic acid content and the pomace due to possible unsaponifiable content. The only fat in your recipe that I'd use if I wanted a clear soap is the sunflower.

So, what would you think better to fix my recipe?

Throw it out and start over. Given your skill level and the small amount of soap you've made, it is not worth the time and trouble to fix this soap.

...could I use my liquid soap right away?

Not if it is lye heavy!!!

If you make a new batch of soap that is not lye heavy, then the answer is yes.

Because my other recipe, being clear but not bubbly enough.

I have no idea what your other recipe is, but there is nothing in this new recipe to make bubbles either. Why do you think this new recipe will make more bubbles?

Could it be better after I kept for a few weeks?

Storing liquid soap before using it will allow sediment and unsaponifiable materials to float or settle out of the soap. That can increase clarity. There may be a little increase in mildness with time, but if the soap is very lye heavy to start with, the lye heaviness won't go away with time.

 

[mawarliar]

"... I dunno, just going to cook it in low temperature in my slow cooker for another 3-4 hours so it won't be to lye heavy.. ..."

If you've been cooking a lye heavy soap for 12 hours, cooking it even longer won't help. It's time for you to STOP and THINK. Do not just keep trying things at random.

Did you not read my post #9 about the many things that can cause cloudiness? If so, please read carefully. You used palm, tallow, and pomace olive oil. All three will contribute to a cloudy soap. The palm and tallow due to the palmitic and stearic acid content and the pomace due to possible unsaponifiable content. The only fat in your recipe that I'd use if I wanted a clear soap is the sunflower.

So, what would you think better to fix my recipe?

Throw it out and start over. Given your skill level and the small amount of soap you've made, it is not worth the time and trouble to fix this soap.

...could I use my liquid soap right away?

Not if it is lye heavy!!!

If you make a new batch of soap that is not lye heavy, then the answer is yes.

Because my other recipe, being clear but not bubbly enough.

I have no idea what your other recipe is, but there is nothing in this new recipe to make bubbles either. Why do you think this new recipe will make more bubbles?

Could it be better after I kept for a few weeks?

Storing liquid soap before using it will allow sediment and unsaponifiable materials to float or settle out of the soap. That can increase clarity. There may be a little increase in mildness with time, but if the soap is very lye heavy to start with, the lye heaviness won't go away with time.

Yes, I Did read it, but the damage is done..

Okay, I will just throw it away..
By the way, my other recipe were :
120gr oop
80gr coconut oil 76d
44gr of KOH
76gr Glycerin..

I think it should be bubbly, but if it eventually not bubbly enough, then I just gonna make another batch..
I'm going to search furthermore for some bubbly liquid soap :mrgreen:

 

[Susie]

Stop right now. Do not make another batch yet. Go read this(Yes, the entire thread.):

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114

Then try the recipe and method in post #8. Follow every detail (no pomace olive oil). That will give you good soap. THEN you can run a recipe by us to see if it will give good soap.

You have to be more scientific, less, "I will throw things in madly without knowing what I am doing." to get good soap. You really should read at least 5 pages of threads on the Liquid Soap and Cream Soap Forum. You would learn lots on what NOT to do.

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto what Susie and DeeAnna have said......

....and you can't go wrong with the recipe in the link Susie gave you. I would practice on that one until you have the basics of liquid soapmaking down before branching out into formulating your own recipes. I pretty much consider it to be a fool-proof recipe that's perfect for both beginners and old-timers alike. And it makes great soap that dilutes out as clear as a bell every time.

You have to be more scientific, less, "I will throw things in madly without knowing what I am doing." to get good soap.

Very true. Making soap is a lot like baking a cake, as opposed to making a pot of stew. When making stew, one can improve it/make it better by intuitively tossing in a little bit of 'this' or a little bit of 'that' without any harm just as long as you taste it along the way and it tastes pleasant to you in the end......but when baking a cake, one can't just intuitively add things by taste. One needs to be very precise up front with the ratios of leavener, the amount and type of flour, and the amount and type of liquid (especially if it's an acidic liquid), or else the cake won't rise properly or come out with the pleasing taste, texture and crumb you are hoping for in the end.

For example, if you add just a little bit too much leavener to cake, it will turn out tasting either unpleasantly bitter or soapy in the end and can even fall/sink/deflate after taking it out of the oven.........and when it comes to soap, adding more KOH/glycerin to fix a cloudy soap will zap you in the end, unless you pre-calculated your recipe to have an adequately high enough superfat up front to compensate for the extra amount of KOH added later.

If you didn't pre-calculate things to enable your soap to take on the extra amount of KOH that you added after the fact, then cooking it, no matter how much longer, will not lessen its lye-heaviness. That's just the nature of the chemistry of saponification. The only thing that will help lessen it is to add more oil/fat to react with the extra KOH.

If you haven't thrown it away yet, you can always try to save it by adding more oil to it bit by bit until zap is no longer present, but unless you were able to keep track of how much extra KOH you added, it will become a guessing game as to how much extra of whatever specific oil/fat you'll need to add in order to compensate, and there are no guarantees as to how the soap will turn out in the end (i.e., cloudy or clear, bubbly or flat, etc..). On the bright side, though, you will have at least saved it from the trash and have learned something useful in the process, and if for nothing else, you can always use it for washing dishes.


IrishLass