Cheater Soap

[Chispa]

Playing with the calculator on Soapee led me to the realization that some oils have way more benefits than others. The best of these are:
Castor
Coconut
Stearic Acid

Castor seems magical because it is listed as 100% "Bubbles" and 100% "Conditioning". No other oil is like it. The condition for using it seems to be that it needs to be balanced out with a hard oil, otherwise you get a soft bar with poor lather. While the general statement seems to be that it should only be used at 5%, there are reports of it being used up to 25 or 30% with lovely lather if balanced by hard oils. It is not an expensive oil when purchased in bulk.

Coconut Oil is great because it makes a hard bar with great bubbles. Its drawback is that it is as "Cleansing" as it is "Bubbly". The only way around the drawback seems to be to use a high superfat, which kills lather. Also coconut oil has poor longevity. Despite this, coconut oil is probably the most popular oil of them all.

Stearic Acid is not really a traditional oil, but it is widely available on order, and is not expensive. It makes a hard, enduring bar with stable lather. It causes nearly instant soap on a stick when used in high quantities, and is recommended to be used in hot process to work around this. It is recommended at a rate of 0.5%, but the shaving soap people use it up to 50%.

A bar with 50% Castor and 50% Stearic acid seems to be a soap that nearly hits the limit on all the soapy benefits.
45 bubbles
0 Cleansing
49 Conditioning
50 Hardness
50 Longevity
95 Stable

It should be a hard enough bar to balance out the high% of castor. The conditioning score is a little low, but is balanced by the 0 cleansing. Would this bar work?
http://soapee.com/recipes/3922

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

The numbers, especially when taken in isolation, don't mean very much at all. I would suggest reading back through the beginner, lye-based, and the two recipe sections - you will see how much of certain oils/ffas are used and often comes the reasoning behind it. For example, castor is a bubble booster, not a bubble creator.

"Would this bar work?" - as a fun experiment, yes. As a soap which would be better to use than a good recipe? No.

 

[Susie]

The numbers, especially when taken in isolation, don't mean very much at all. I would suggest reading back through the beginner, lye-based, and the two recipe sections - you will see how much of certain oils/ffas are used and often comes the reasoning behind it. For example, castor is a bubble booster, not a bubble creator.

"Would this bar work?" - as a fun experiment, yes. As a soap which would be better to use than a good recipe? No.

^^^What Craig said!

Those numbers are interesting to play with when you are new. They are not meant to be your sole source of decision making. You need to understand the properties that each oil brings to the soap. Please read the forums suggested above.

 

[Soapprentice]

The numbers, especially when taken in isolation, don't mean very much at all. I would suggest reading back through the beginner, lye-based, and the two recipe sections - you will see how much of certain oils/ffas are used and often comes the reasoning behind it. For example, castor is a bubble booster, not a bubble creator.

"Would this bar work?" - as a fun experiment, yes. As a soap which would be better to use than a good recipe? No.

I totally agree with this. I once made a number perfect soap and hated it on skin.. never again. I still have some soap left out from that batch.

 

[biarine]

I did it too. But in other hand many people use 20 to 25 sf on 100% coconut oil soap but don't I just put 10-12 sf and perfect for me.

 

[artemis]

Playing around with these ideas is definitely fun when you are new. I say, why not try it, but in a small batch. That way, you will have enough to try and to share with anyone who are using for feedback, but not too much if it doesn't work out. And then report back to let us know your findings. With pictures, of course!

 

[Chispa]

I found a guy that did a 60:40 SA:CO soap. Seems like it worked well enough.

I recently tested 60% SA and 40% Castor and it lathers extremely well (60% KOH / 40% NaOH shave soap testing). It resembles the MdC lather and lasts quite a while when left unmolested. If I can, I'll try to get a video or pic posted to show the results.

Probably not a great bath soap though. Would be interesting to try it. A small batch wouldnt hurt.

 

[toxikon]

I find that this website is a great resource for learning about oil properties: http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/

Numbers on soap calculators can sometimes be misleading.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I found a guy that did a 60:40 SA:CO soap. Seems like it worked well enough.



Probably not a great bath soap though. Would be interesting to try it. A small batch wouldnt hurt.

Yeah, that was a shaving soap. Shaving soap formulations are totally different. The "lather" that he was talking about would not be what one would tend to look for in a bath bar.

 

[dixiedragon]

I say try it and report back. But like one poster, said, do a small batch. You may want to HP this.

 

[Chispa]

Well, I HP'ed a 200g batch tonight. With 2% Citric Acid, 4% Sugar, and Aloe Juice for water. I made the whole batch in a ziplock bag, which made it easy to pop into the microwave. The oils were hot when I added the lye, of course. The Stearic hardened instantly, the castor had to be massaged in. A few cycles of microwaving and massaging left a fairly homogeneous mass. I glopped it into the mould, and popped the mould into the oven. Im trying to bake it into submission, dont know if that is going to do anything. But I hope it helps homogenise it a bit more. This whole thing is a bit outside of my experience, but once it cools, I imagine I'll have learned something.

 

[Chispa]

These soap bars look and feel like a glued together Mr Dumpty. Chunks of very hard soap in a matrix of very soft soap and free castor oil. There are no lye pockets that I could detect. No zaps on the runny bits. I washed my hands with a few crumbs and it was like washing my hands with a wax candle. No lather or slickness.

 

[earlene]

Well, I don't know what your recipe was (it is set as Private on Soapee, so I cannot see it) but your HP process is not like any I have done before. I usually do my HP in a crock pot and stir with a spoon or spatula. I have never tried doing it in a plastic baggie in the microwave oven.

Did you mix the oils and lye solution in a bowl first, or did you mix them in the plastic baggie? I wouldn't do the latter, but from your description, I am not really sure.

You said you 'baked' the soap in the mold. How hot was your oven? And for how long did it stay at that heat?

Also, if you could post your actual recipe, that might help.e

But from your process and also from your results, it doesn't sound as though your ingredients were well mixed. A bowl or pot and a stirring device (such as a stick blender, spoon or whisk) would be a great help in getting the ingredients mixed well.

 

[Chispa]

100g Stearic Acid
100g Castor Oil
52g Aloe Juice
28.1g NaOH

8g sugar
4g Citric Acid

http://soapee.com/recipes/4014

I disolved sugar and citric acid in the aloe juice, then added lye to it in a plastic cup. As the lye cooled, I warmed the castor and stearic together in the microwave in 20 sec bursts until the stearic melted. The fats were melted in the baggie.

The melted fats were fairly hot when I added the lye to the baggie. I've never heard of anyone making soap in a bag either. Though I have heard of people rebatching soap this way. 200g of oils was too small to really get my stick blender in without incorporating a lot of air. I was worried also about soap on a stick from the stearic.

Despite the oils being melted and well mixed before I added the lye, it seems like the stearic separated out instantly when I added the lye, leaving the castor to slowly saponify afterwards. I agree that the baggie method did not allow very easy mixing.

I heated it in the oven at 100C and once it softened, I squished the soap down well on the edges and corners, then let it cool with a towel over it overnight. I cut the bars in the morning.

 

[earlene]

Well, if that had been well mixed and not separated, I would expect it to be a very hard bar of soap. Even my 100% castor oil soap was quite solid, and that was without any help other than the NaOH.

Maybe you could try it again with a whisk instead of a stick blender. Or if you can find a tall thin container that your SB would fit into, you could get a good mix with SB. Your total batch size would fit into the two-cup measuring cup I use and still allow for my SB to be sufficiently submerged to be safe.

Since this is such a fast moving recipe, though, I'd probably use more liquid to give myself more time with the batter before pouring into the mold.

 

[artemis]

I've never heard of anyone making soap in a bag either.

My first thought: why are you trying a new method and a new recipe at the same time? How do you hope this method will help?

Second: this sounds like a dangerous way to make soap. If the batter were to increase in volume and rupture the bag, that would be a big soapy mess. Even with out a split in the bag, I know I would have had a mess just due to the floppy nature of the baggie.

Third: even with a tried-and-true recipe, this sounds like a method that would lead to a poorly mixed soap batter.

Thank you for sharing your experiment and especially your results.

 

[Gabriel_Gago]

Regarding the first post, yes, shaving people (like meself) use stearic acid up to 50. Even more, actually, I'm familiar with more than a dozen tried and tested recipes of shaving soap and in one of them i use up to 80% stearic and 20% coconut. In fact i shared this recipe in my introduction post couple of days ago.
In my case, as i only make shaving soaps, i would very much agree with the "cheat" stuff - stearic, coconut and castor are very useful to me alongside a few others.

But, altough our recipes are in fact based very much on stearic acid, both coconut and castor oils should be used in lesser amounts as both can have undesired effects in high amounts ; coconut makes a very cleanser soap with large bubbles, and castor oil in high percentages makes a very "icky" lather. It helps a lot with sickness, but too much of it can ruin a shaving soap.