Castile with pink clay brittle on edges

[instantdelay]

Hi everyone. I started soaping in February. I’ve made about 70 batches. I’ve done hp, cp, CPOP. I love Castile soap. And I’ve got several batches curing. I decided to make several 100% olive oil soaps with different additives for some variation. I was able to unmold them all after a day and a half. I used a 1.5:1 w:l ratio. I used room temp oil and hot lye solution for the last one that I made. I used 14oz Evoo, 1.8 lye, and 2.7 water. I added 1 tsp French pink clay at trace. When I unmolded it after about 36 hours, I was unable to cut it with my wire cutter, and it was brittle on the bottom like hard cocoa butter. I’m wondering if it could be lye heavy? I’m super careful when I measure, so I don’t think so. Could the hot lye have anything to do with it? Or the clay?
Thank you!

 

[lsg]

Have you tried the zap test on the soap? If it doesn't zap, it is not lye-heavy. Even with a 33% lye solution setting on SoapCalc, you used less than the recommended water. My guess is that you should have used more water with your lye.

 

[AliOop]

The clay would have absorbed some water, making the batter thicker. If you didn't blend enough, especially with the clay (which could have settled a bit towards the bottom), that's probably where the chalky layer came from.

The hot lye would certainly have sped up saponification, meaning that you probably should have cut it earlier, especially with higher lye concentration. Consider testing every few hours to see when your loaves are ready to cut, rather than waiting any specific amount of time. With hot lye and low water, I'd expect them to be ready in less than 24 hours.

 

[DeeAnna]

I start checking my soap about 12 hour after it's made, especially when trying something new.

If the soap is high in tallow or coconut, I'll start checking even sooner. It seems counter-intuitive, but I've had a batch or two that's high in olive oil soap turn brittle early on too.

I'd say in your case, the clay contributed to the brittleness.

The soap might not be any more brittle on the bottom than elsewhere. It's just as likely the last 1/4" to 1/2" of the soap broke apart because all the force from your cutting tool is focused on that last little bit. The soap cracks apart due to that force, rather than cuts cleanly.

 

[Maple_Street_Bath]

From my experience with Zany's no slime recipe, I had a hard time making castile soap with low water concentrations and additives. A castile soap with low water concentration seemed to work fine to be able to cut at 18-24 hours... but when I added any kind of additive (clay, charcoal were the two that I tried), I could never get it to cut. The castile with additives was rock hard and brittle in as little as 12 hours. At 10 hours the soap was too soft to unmold, so it seems to move quickly in that 10-12 hour range. I didn't play around any further with castile, castile with additives, and the water ratios to see if increasing the water would get a better result. I figured four failed batches was enough and moved on. My thought is that if you have several successful batches of castile without additives made and had no issues cutting and only the batches with additives had the issues to cut, the additives are likely contributing to the issue. Try raising the water ratio and see if that resolves it. I would start at 2:1 and work my way down, but that's me.

 

[instantdelay]

Have you tried the zap test on the soap? If it doesn't zap, it is not lye-heavy. Even with a 33% lye solution setting on SoapCalc, you used less than the recommended water. My guess is that you should have used more water with your lye.

Yes. I can straight up lick it and it’s fine. I’m thinking I needed more water especially with the addition of clay.

 

[instantdelay]

The clay would have absorbed some water, making the batter thicker. If you didn't blend enough, especially with the clay (which could have settled a bit towards the bottom), that's probably where the chalky layer came from.

The hot lye would certainly have sped up saponification, meaning that you probably should have cut it earlier, especially with higher lye concentration. Consider testing every few hours to see when your loaves are ready to cut, rather than waiting any specific amount of time. With hot lye and low water, I'd expect them to be ready in less than 24 hours.

Good point about the clay. I should have remembered that. I’ve used clays before but not with 1.5:1 water/lye.

 

[instantdelay]

From my experience with Zany's no slime recipe, I had a hard time making castile soap with low water concentrations and additives. A castile soap with low water concentration seemed to work fine to be able to cut at 18-24 hours... but when I added any kind of additive (clay, charcoal were the two that I tried), I could never get it to cut. The castile with additives was rock hard and brittle in as little as 12 hours. At 10 hours the soap was too soft to unmold, so it seems to move quickly in that 10-12 hour range. I didn't play around any further with castile, castile with additives, and the water ratios to see if increasing the water would get a better result. I figured four failed batches was enough and moved on. My thought is that if you have several successful batches of castile without additives made and had no issues cutting and only the batches with additives had the issues to cut, the additives are likely contributing to the issue. Try raising the water ratio and see if that resolves it. I would start at 2:1 and work my way down, but that's me.

Sounds like a good idea. Thank you.

 

[Becky1024]

I make Bastille soap (mainly olive oil with others added) with the same 1.5:1 ratio and never have a problem with clays. I think you either cut too late or the dry clay is absorbing the water when you add the clay at trace. Try mixing your clay with the olive oil before mixing in your lye solution. The oil will coat the pores in the clay and prevent water absorption.

 

[instantdelay]

I make Bastille soap (mainly olive oil with others added) with the same 1.5:1 ratio and never have a problem with clays. I think you either cut too late or the dry clay is absorbing the water when you add the clay at trace. Try mixing your clay with the olive oil before mixing in your lye solution. The oil will coat the pores in the clay and prevent water absorption.

Thank you. I wondered why some mix clays into oils and some at trace. I appreciate the explanation.