Castile/Castile-ish soaps?

[FragranceGuy]

Hey soapy friends! I’m going to make my third batch of soap tomorrow. My first batch was a bubbly crisco/CO recipe that is still curing. My second batch was a lard/CO/OO recipe... that is still curing I’ve tested both batches and they are both lovely as fresh bars. The lard bar is much harder and despite the short cure time/potentially higher ph, my skin has NEVER felt so soft as it did after washing with the lard bar!! (60% lard, 26% OO, 14%CO) I don’t mean to offend, but animal fats seem to have a special quality. The conditioning values are rated based on saponification, but from now on I will add at least 8 points to the “conditioning” value when making lard soaps (40% or more) because for my skin they are a dream!! The word luxurious comes to mind. I’ve decided that for my third batch I should make a larger batch of Castile/Castile-ish soap. I’m thinking 2lb of 100% OO Castile alongside a 2lb batch of a modified Castile, 65% OO, 20% Canola, 15% Sunflower. I plan on treating each batch as similar as possible. I’m toying with the idea of using a higher 4% EO to offset the long cure time. I’m also tempted to soap at room temp, just to see what happens. The way I see it, if I’m going to make soap I should make as diverse a collection as possible and make my Castile as early in my journey as possible. Honestly, waiting 6 months to a year for a soap that doesn’t help my skin anymore than a soap that’s cured in 5 weeks doesn’t make sense to me, but I get it. I’m all about being a purist for learning purposes. I’ve noticed that canola oil has a lower linoleic content than most other inexpensive oils. So I modified my recipes. Sunflower oil is high in linolec acid. I’m tweaking both to adjust for my liking. Here’s my plan..

100% OO, 2lb oils

And...

65% OO
20% Canola Oil
15% Sunflower Oil
2lb oils

I’m thinking 40% lye concentration to speed curing, 3% superfat just because.

Any advice is welcome!

 

[AliOop]

Sounds good, except that I'd actually soap hotter with the 100% OO so that it comes to trace faster. OO is notoriously slow to trace, unless it is pomace, which is usually the opposite.

And glad you like the lard bars. If you like them now, wait till 8 weeks or so. The lather just gets better and better!

 

[Tara_H]

animal fats seem to have a special quality.

When I started making soap I got into using tallow sort of by accident, looking for a substitute for palm oil that's in so many recipes (and that I can't get easily here). I'm very glad I did!

Good luck with your Castile adventures also, I literally have Zany's no slime castile | Page 31 | SoapMakingForum open in a new tab here waiting for me to be in the right headspace for it, so I'm sure I'll be joining you very soon

 

[earlene]

I’ve decided that for my third batch I should make a larger batch of Castile/Castile-ish soap. I’m thinking 2lb of 100% OO Castile alongside a 2lb batch of a modified Castile, 65% OO, 20% Canola, 15% Sunflower. I plan on treating each batch as similar as possible.
<snip>
I’ve noticed that canola oil has a lower linoleic content than most other inexpensive oils. So I modified my recipes. Sunflower oil is high in linolec acid.

I’m toying with the idea of using a higher 4% EO to offset the long cure time. I’m also tempted to soap at room temp, just to see what happens.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. 4% Essential Oil to offset long cure time? ? ?

Here’s my plan..

100% OO, 2lb oils

And...

65% OO
20% Canola Oil
15% Sunflower Oil
2lb oils

I’m thinking 40% lye concentration to speed curing, 3% superfat just because.

Any advice is welcome!

[40% Lye] concentration is a good plan to shorten de-molding time, but it doesn't really shorten cure time. Pure Castile soap (100% olive oil soap) benefits from a longer cure time, not because of water loss, but because of the molecular interactions that occur while the soap cures. Some folks use it at 6 months, some at a year, some longer, like 18 or 24 months. It's also a personal thing; some prefer the longer cure for how it feels on their own skin, while others don't notice that much of a difference. Some people absolutley love Castile soap, while others absolutely hate it. So what really matters is if you personally like it once it's made. If not, at least you will have learned how you feel about it once it's cured and you give it a wash.

Bastille soaps (high olive oil with the addition of at least one other oil in the mix), may need a shorter cure time, but even with 65% OO, it still probably will need a little more time than the suggested 6-8 weeks for many formulas lower in OO.

The other thing that [40% Lye] will do in many cases, is to slow trace, so watch for that. As long as you are using a stick blender, though it shouldn't be a problem. If you use pomace olive oil, however, do be very careful (see below for my experience...)

3% SF is fine; I use it most of the time.


One other thing, I have a question, what is your goal with these two soaps? Do you want them to be similar or do you want them to be different?

If you want them to be similar, then I suggest you use the High Oleic versions of Canola and Sunflower, as you will get a more similar fatty acid profile and lower linoleic acid.

Sounds good, except that I'd actually soap hotter with the 100% OO so that it comes to trace faster. OO is notoriously slow to trace, unless it is pomace, which is usually the opposite.

Although I agree in theory, my experience is that with a stick blender and regular olive oil, it's not that big a deal. Even with a lower lye concentration. But even with a 40% lye concentration and a stick blender, I don't add heat.

However, if I use pomace olive oil at 50% and regular olive oil at 50%, I don't bother using a stick blender at all. My Castile soap at room temperature made with 50/50 pomace to regular OO comes to trace within minutes with only hand stirring.

 

[FragranceGuy]

@AliOop I was worried that waiting on soap to cure would be difficult for me, but it’s enjoyable in its own way. Every day that passes I know my soap is improving and it brings me a little dose of joy each day. I think I’m going to hold off on giving my lard bars to family and friends until it’s cured for 8 weeks. Thanks for all the advice you’ve given me on my posts. I’m going to heat my oils for my first batch of Castile and then room temp my second batch as a little experiment.

@Tara_H Good luck with your no slime Castile! That’s a very interesting recipe that I’d like to try sometime too. Please post your impressions (and hopefully pictures) of the process

@earlene Thanks for all the useful information! The way I phrased my reasoning for using more EO was unclear and misleading. What I meant to say is I’m hoping that if I use more fragrance that it might offset the fading of the scent after curing for 6 months. In other words, I’m hoping the bars will retain more scent if I use more fragrance. I’m not sure if it will actually help, but I figure I’ll give it a try. As far as my goals between the Castile and bastile, I was curious what qualities will be different when using less expensive soft oils compared to pure Castile. My primary goal when creating the bastile recipe was keeping my linoleic acid from getting way too high. Knowing that it will have a longer cure, I’m hoping that by keeping linoleic at reasonable levels might help me stave off DOS. I’m fascinated with the idea of making quality soaps using inexpensive ingredients. If I end up liking the bastile almost as much as the Castile I would consider it a huge success because I made a comparable soap for less money. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to go cheap across the board, but if I can make a bar of soap with 15% canola and it’s comparable to a bar with a more expensive oil, I would consider that a win. I plan on making a lot of soap and I’m hoping I can stretch my dollar over time by using small amounts of inexpensive oils without compromising too much quality. I think the only way for me to determine if that’s possible is by using more expensive oils and comparing them side by side with the less expensive oils. Ultimately that is my goal with the Castile and bastile.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I don't want you to miss out on the experience of making Castile/Bastile soap the way you describe in your experiments. As others have noted, it is known for long trace times, a few days in the mold before it's ready to unmold; 12 weeks/3 months tops to cure (honestly. the 1-year cure is a myth); the "Slime" aspect castiles are known for, i.e., it has a love/hate relationship with the soapmaking community.

Once you've done that, I suggest you try making ZNSC:
Zany's No Slime Castile

In addition to "no slime" it also cures faster than old-fashion handmade castile. I start washing my face with it in as little as 2 weeks after it's made, although, like most soap, the longer it cures, the better it is.

I would not recommend using canola or sunflower -- sunflower for sure produces more slime. Almond oil or RBO might be better choices -- based on reading others' results.

For the Bastile, I like my go-to preference. The cold cream like lather is wonderful on my dry, sensitive, mature skin :
85% Olive Oil
10% Coconut Oil
5% Castor

HAPPY SOAPING!

 

[kaygrrl]

I don't want you to miss out on the experience of making Castile/Bastile soap the way you describe in your experiments. As others have noted, it is known for long trace times, a few days in the mold before it's ready to unmold; 12 weeks/3 months tops to cure (honestly. the 1-year cure is a myth); the "Slime" aspect castiles are known for, i.e., it has a love/hate relationship with the soapmaking community.

Once you've done that, I suggest you try making ZNSC:
Zany's No Slime Castile

In addition to "no slime" it also cures faster than old-fashion handmade castile. I start washing my face with it in as little as 2 weeks after it's made, although, like most soap, the longer it cures, the better it is.

I would not recommend using canola or sunflower -- sunflower for sure produces more slime. Almond oil or RBO might be better choices -- based on reading others' results.

For the Bastile, I like my go-to preference. The cold cream like lather is wonderful on my dry, sensitive, mature skin :
85% Olive Oil
10% Coconut Oil
5% Castor

HAPPY SOAPING!

Zany in CO, Thanks for sharing. I was wondering how your Zany’s No Slime Castile compares to making an all olive oil soap or multiple oil soap with real seawater? I love your recipe for the lye water and I’m tempted to try seawater if I can get it.

 

[FragranceGuy]

I don't want you to miss out on the experience of making Castile/Bastile soap the way you describe in your experiments. As others have noted, it is known for long trace times, a few days in the mold before it's ready to unmold; 12 weeks/3 months tops to cure (honestly. the 1-year cure is a myth); the "Slime" aspect castiles are known for, i.e., it has a love/hate relationship with the soapmaking community.

Once you've done that, I suggest you try making ZNSC:
Zany's No Slime Castile

In addition to "no slime" it also cures faster than old-fashion handmade castile. I start washing my face with it in as little as 2 weeks after it's made, although, like most soap, the longer it cures, the better it is.

I would not recommend using canola or sunflower -- sunflower for sure produces more slime. Almond oil or RBO might be better choices -- based on reading others' results.

For the Bastile, I like my go-to preference. The cold cream like lather is wonderful on my dry, sensitive, mature skin :
85% Olive Oil
10% Coconut Oil
5% Castor

HAPPY SOAPING!

Your bastile recipe looks nice! Mildly cleansing, bubbly and super conditioning. I’ll definitely make your no slime Castile recipe as my next Castile so I can compare it to my slimy Castile Thanks!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Zany in CO, Thanks for sharing. I was wondering how your Zany’s No Slime Castile compares to making an all olive oil soap or multiple oil soap with real seawater? I love your recipe for the lye water and I’m tempted to try seawater if I can get it.

I make it with real seawater and it's lovely.

 

[SoapMee]

I don't want you to miss out on the experience of making Castile/Bastile soap the way you describe in your experiments. As others have noted, it is known for long trace times, a few days in the mold before it's ready to unmold; 12 weeks/3 months tops to cure (honestly. the 1-year cure is a myth); the "Slime" aspect castiles are known for, i.e., it has a love/hate relationship with the soapmaking community.

Once you've done that, I suggest you try making ZNSC:
Zany's No Slime Castile

In addition to "no slime" it also cures faster than old-fashion handmade castile. I start washing my face with it in as little as 2 weeks after it's made, although, like most soap, the longer it cures, the better it is.

I would not recommend using canola or sunflower -- sunflower for sure produces more slime. Almond oil or RBO might be better choices -- based on reading others' results.

For the Bastile, I like my go-to preference. The cold cream like lather is wonderful on my dry, sensitive, mature skin :
85% Olive Oil
10% Coconut Oil
5% Castor

HAPPY SOAPING!

Zany, Do you keep your SF at 0% when making your ZNSC Bastile version?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Zany, Do you keep your SF at 0% when making your ZNSC Bastile version?

Yes. Olive oil contains "unsaponifiables" so my intention with 0%SF is to saponify as much of the OO as possible to avoid the slime factor.

 

[ameliashawn]

Castile soap is one of my favorite green cleaning products. In fact, it's one of the only things I use on a daily basis to keep our house and our bodies clean! It can be used for so many things including: shampoo, body wash, hand soap, countertop cleaner, dish soap…and much more.

 

[AliOop]

Castile soap is one of my favorite green cleaning products. In fact, it's one of the only things I use on a daily basis to keep our house and our bodies clean! It can be used for so many things including: shampoo, body wash, hand soap, countertop cleaner, dish soap…and much more.

Are you talking about Castile liquid soap then? This thread is about Castile bar soap. If you have a favorite Castile liquid soap recipe, we’d love to hear more about that in the liquid soap forum.

 

[Ugeauxgirl]

I love lard soaps too, and tallow. They get even better after a long cure. This week I made several pounds of high animal fat, low cleansing soaps for the winter. After a nice long cure they ought to be amazing.

I don't love Castile soaps. I do like a Bastille soap. The one Zany suggests has ingredients that will counteract the slimy lather that Castile is famous for. Canola and sunflower also give you slimy lather so you might not get a much different soap than all olive oil- and it might not cure any faster either.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Canola and sunflower also give you slimy lather

 

[Georgeandstella]

I make it with real seawater and it's lovely.

Hello
This is my first time using seawater-I have what looks like salt on the bottom of my lye mixture.
I took seawater and strained and boiled it and strained it again. Then mixed with lye and added sugar. What looks like a layer of salt appeared on the bottom. I tested the lye with distilled water and it’s clear, so this must be from the seawater. Have you had this happen? Thank you

 

[DeeAnna]

@Georgeandstella -- Two possibilities are the salt and the sugar.

Sodium chloride (aka table salt, the salt in sea water) will precipitate out of a sodium hydroxide solution if the sat concentration is above roughly 3% by weight. If you boiled the seawater, you probably concentrated the salt and then when you added the NaOH, the sodium chloride precipitated.

Sugar and NaOH react with each other before the sugar can properly dissolve. Dissolve sugar in water FIRST and then add the NaOH to the sugar solution. If you do this the other way around, the sugar may react with the NaOH and make a lumpy mess.

 

[dibbles]

It’s probably from the sugar if you added it after the lye. To use sugar in a lye solution, dissolve it completely in the batch water before adding the lye.

ETA I didn’t consider the salt being concentrated by boiling the sea water.

 

[Georgeandstella]

@Georgeandstella -- Two possibilities are the salt and the sugar.

Sodium chloride (aka table salt, the salt in sea water) will precipitate out of a sodium hydroxide solution if the sat concentration is above roughly 3% by weight. If you boiled the seawater, you probably concentrated the salt and then when you added the NaOH, the sodium chloride precipitated.

Sugar and NaOH react with each other before the sugar can properly dissolve. Dissolve sugar in water FIRST and then add the NaOH to the sugar solution. If you do this the other way around, the sugar may react with the NaOH and make a lumpy mess.

Fabulous!! Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom is it safe to use?

 

[Georgeandstella]

It’s probably from the sugar if you added it after the lye. To use sugar in a lye solution, dissolve it completely in the batch water before adding the lye.

ETA I didn’t consider the salt being concentrated by boiling the sea water.

Hello, thank you so much for your insight. I wish I’d paid more attention in Chemistry class is it safe to use?