Can you use 100% whole milk for the oil?

[Saltynuts]

Happy new year everyone!!!

Just curious - can you use whole milk for the oil? Lots of fat in whole milk, but maybe its not an "oil" so that won't work.

If you cannot, can you substitute out whole milk for 100% of the water in the recipe? How will that turn out?

Thanks!!!

 

[Booker]

I am very new to CP soap. Because I'm so new, I've never attempted a milk soap, I feel I need a lot more experience with regular CP before I begin the milk soap journey.

That being said, I have certainly read about milk soaps. They are just so lovely.

In my research I have learned that lye added to milk can scorch it, turn it lumpy and an odd color, and smell bad. Some recipes I've read have you freeze the milk before adding lye (for 100% replacement), others have you add the milk at trace, and place your soap in the freezer to prevent overheating.

I've really enjoyed the book Milk Soaps by Anne-Marie Faiola.

Happy New Year!

 

[AliOop]

@Saltynuts milk doesn't have enough fat to be considered an oil. However, you can use it as 100% liquid replacement. Freezing the milk, as suggested by @Booker, is a good way to prevent the problems mentioned.

Also, the fat in the milk does add extra fat to your overall fatty acid profile, thus raising the superfat. Here is a good article about how to calculate the extra fat using nutrition labels.

 

[Saltynuts]

Thank you Booker and AliOop!

That link you posted was interesting AliOop. But one thing it didn't cover is how much (lye) you'd need if you replaced some/all of the water/oil in the recipe with milk (or other dairy products). Let's say you were making a soap using X oil, wanted it to be 0% superfat, and wanted to use milk instead of water.

It looks like at SoapCalc, you can plug in "Milk Fat, any bovine" as one of the "oils". I guess you could just plug in the grams of fat from any milk, butter, cream or other milk product you are using to the updated lye number, no?

Thanks!!

I just bought at the store:

1. Some canned goat milk

2. Some canned coconut milk

3. Some canned evaporated milk

How would you adjust the lye, if say you wanted to hit a 0% superfat as closely as possible, for these? For the evaporated milk, I think I could just plug in the total grams in that "Milk Fat, any bovine" on soap calc.

But what about for goat milk? Would be using that same one close enough?

Then for the coconut milk, I don't see that on soapcalc anywhere, maybe just plug the grams I use into the coconut oil category?

Thanks!!!

 

[AliOop]

If you add your desired amount milk as one the "oils" in the soap calculator, it will calculate the amount of fat for you, and adjust the lye accordingly. However, now you have created a different problem. Since milk is mostly water, you will have to adjust your total liquid amount to account for that. The calculator will only do one or the other for you - not both.

That's why most people find it easier to put the milk in as a liquid, not an oil. Then they manually calculate the amount of extra fat (or ignore it and accept the higher superfat).

As explained in DeeAnna's article, the amount of fat for any milk you buy at the store will be listed on the nutrition label. You can use the information in her article, and the information on the label, to determine the additional amount of fat, and how much additional lye is needed (or how much additional superfat is created).

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks AliOop. Yea, I think I follow all that from the article. I think I'm indeed going to just sub out the milk for the water, and use regular oils. But my real question is how to figure out how much lye to add if you want to hit an exact superfat number. For cow milk its easy, right there in the soap calculator. But what about goat milk? They don't have a category for that. Same for coconut milk.

Just fill their grams in as cow milk and coconut oil, respectively?

Thanks!

 

[AliOop]

Coconut oil is 100% fat and thus nothing like coconut milk, which is only a bit of fat and a lot of water (and a bit of coconut solids).

I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but I don't know another way to say it. Use the nutrition label on the milk carton to get the amount of fat that will be in the amount of goat milk (coconut milk, whatever) that you use. Then use the SAP value for that type of fat (or something similar) to figure out the amount of extra lye needed to saponify that amount of that fat.

Is there a reason that 0% SF is so important to you? Normally that's only necessary for laundry soap, although it can also help to reduce slime in high-oleic soaps, too. Without lab-grade equipment, you aren't going to get the perfect 0% SF. Even then, you'd have to test the purity of your lye, since that value is not going to be exact. Plus, the SAP value for every batch of every type of oil varies slightly due to differences in soils, harvesting methods, processing, etc. All SAP values in all of the calculators are just averages.

 

[Saltynuts]

Hmmm, let me ask my question a different way. You mentioned SAP value, which it sounds like determines how much lye per amount of oil or fat. So my question is this - where can I find the SAP values for goat milk fat and coconut milk fat? I did a quick google search and the coconut one and keep hitting coconut oil. Maybe goat milk is sufficiently similar to cow milk (per gram), and coconut milk fat to coconut milk oil (again, per gram) that I can just use those, respectively? Or are there actual values out there that are more precise? I will continue to google.

No particualar reason 0% SF is so important, I just used that as an example. I would simply like to know, no matter what recipe I use, what the % superfat is, so if I like or do not like the recipe I can take the % superfat into account just like everything else.

Thanks again!!!

 

[Shelley D]

Hmmm, let me ask my question a different way. You mentioned SAP value, which it sounds like determines how much lye per amount of oil or fat. So my question is this - where can I find the SAP values for goat milk fat and coconut milk fat? I did a quick google search and the coconut one and keep hitting coconut oil. Maybe goat milk is sufficiently similar to cow milk (per gram), and coconut milk fat to coconut milk oil (again, per gram) that I can just use those, respectively? Or are there actual values out there that are more precise? I will continue to google.

No particualar reason 0% SF is so important, I just used that as an example. I would simply like to know, no matter what recipe I use, what the % superfat is, so if I like or do not like the recipe I can take the % superfat into account just like everything else.

Thanks again!!!

Have you watched any videos on YouTube for making milk soaps? There are so many and they show & explain the process. I was mostly interested in milk soaps when started and I just replaced the water with milks, mostly goat's milk 100% replacement of the water and 3-5% super fat depending on what other oils I'm using in the recipe. I have also used almond milk and buttermilk and a blend of all three. Honestly, I think you are over thinking the process ~ focus on the oils you want in your recipe, then decide which liquid you want to use for your lye solution (milk, water, salt water, aloe, etc) and as for the super fat, you will have to experiment to find what works best for you. I have learned a low super fat works best for me because I live in an area with super hard water so there will be lots of things to consider ~ but first, just make a small test batch to see how it feels and then make adjustments
Happy soaping!

 

[AliOop]

You mentioned SAP value, which it sounds like determines how much lye per amount of oil or fat.

Correct.

So my question is this - where can I find the SAP values for goat milk fat and coconut milk fat?

Good question. I'm not aware of any specific resources for this information. If you find anything in your online search, please do share it.

Maybe goat milk is sufficiently similar to cow milk (per gram), and coconut milk fat to coconut milk oil (again, per gram) that I can just use those, respectively?

Absent more specific answers that you may find from reputable online sources, using the cow milk SAP for goat milk is a reasonable choice.

Similarly, using the SAP value for coconut oil and applying that to the grams of fat in your coconut milk is probably another reasonable choice.

 

[Saltynuts]

Thank you AliOop and Shelly D!!!

 

[Shelley D]

Thank you AliOop and Shelly D!!!

I forgot to add, we have threads in the forum that discuss milk soaps specifically, plus our favorite YouTube soaper videos ~ just try key words in search bar and you should be able to find them
I prolly shouldn't try to type replies while I'm on the clock for my day job
I know on YouTube, I literally typed in "milk soap tutorial" and variations of that to find all kinds of videos, some old, some new, but almost all had good information. My take-a-way for working with milk soaps is to soap cool to prevent the milk from scorching, and I prefer to not gel the soap (I refrigerate mine while it's in the mold).
Test with small batches so you can tweak your recipes and you will be fine