can bacteria survive lye water?

[kagey]

Let's say you used water from a spring or well... or rainwater that possibly has some contamination.
Yeah, you could always boil it to be sure... but...

if you used it to make lye water... and then allowed your soap to gel...
seems to me that there shouldn't be any chance of microscopic germs being in your soap... right?

 

[AliOop]

I don't think the issue is germs, as much as it is other impurities, such as metals, that can cause rancidity in your soap.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

Yes agree with @AliOop. Boiling water would kill most bacteria in water' but wouldn't remove the trace minerals in the water which causes soap to get "dreaded orange spots" which means your soap had gone rancid due to the mineral content in your water.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

To expand a little on what was mentioned above, the pH of lye water is high enough to kill almost any type of bacteria that can be found on earth. Unfortunately, rainwater is increasingly full of all kinds of stuff that you probably don’t want in soap. Here’s one link with some details. Running rainwater through a charcoal filter would remove some/most organic compounds, but not inorganics such as metals unless they’re attached to or part of a partially organic molecule. If I had to use rainwater, I would wait for a big storm, let it rain for a good 30 minutes and then collect the rain directly from the sky into an open bucket.

 

[lenarenee]

Boiling kills a lot, but there are bacteria that survive extreme heat called hyperthermophiles.
Many of us assume lye kills germs, but I’ve never seen any real info that supports that.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Boiling kills a lot, but there are bacteria that survive extreme heat called hyperthermophiles.
Many of us assume lye kills germs, but I’ve never seen any real info that supports that.

I did some research on my own and then checked with my buddies who are oceanography-type microbiologists. The bacteria that like extreme environments don’t survive well outside of their preferred haunts and are unlikely to be in environments where we might collect water. All bets are off if anyone starts collecting water from hot springs, Old Faithful or a deep sea hydrothermal vent!

 

[Marsi]

Boiling kills a lot, but there are bacteria that survive extreme heat called hyperthermophiles.
Many of us assume lye kills germs, but I’ve never seen any real info that supports that.

Embedded in this is a chart showing efficacy of NaOH solutions on various virus bacteria and yeast
bacteria and viruses can be killed, yeast and spores can survive
https://www.proteinguru.com/protocols/NaOH and column cleaning.pdf

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Embedded in this is a chart showing efficacy of NaOH solutions on various virus bacteria and yeast
bacteria and viruses can be killed, yeast and spores can survive
https://www.proteinguru.com/protocols/NaOH and column cleaning.pdf

My browser is blocking that link, returning “suspicious” warning.

ETA: I got to it through a google search. I know basically nothing about spores except that they can be very resistant to pH extremes, temperature, and extreme salinity. A search on spores in rainwater turned up something unexpected and interesting.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/question479.htm

 

[kagey]

Unfortunately, rainwater is increasingly full of all kinds of stuff that you probably don’t want in soap

I dunno -- this sounds like a lot of "the sky is falling."

If I put a bucket out on my driveway and collect rainwater from the sky -- how is that not the same as distilled water via nature?

 

[lenarenee]

I did some research on my own and then checked with my buddies who are oceanography-type microbiologists. The bacteria that like extreme environments don’t survive well outside of their preferred haunts and are unlikely to be in environments where we might collect water. All bets are off if anyone starts collecting water from hot springs, Old Faithful or a deep sea hydrothermal vent!

You mean they have to have those extreme temps for survival? They don't adapt to lower "comfortable" temps. (that makes sense!). Fun info, thanks!

 

[saddigilmore]

I dunno -- this sounds like a lot of "the sky is falling."

If I put a bucket out on my driveway and collect rainwater from the sky -- how is that not the same as distilled water via nature?

rain is theoretically distilled water, it's just falling through air that is riddled with pollutants from car exhaust, factories, general smog ect. I dunno the PH of rain in a big city, but something tells me it's probably acidic too.

I'd say if you took rainwater from distilled water (in a controlled environment, and using a still made of neutral material)and compared it with rain in a bucket from the year 1000, they'd be comparable. today.... the sky is kinda falling... lol

 

[earlene]

I dunno -- this sounds like a lot of "the sky is falling."

If I put a bucket out on my driveway and collect rainwater from the sky -- how is that not the same as distilled water via nature?

Well, it really depends on where you live - the pollutants in your surrounding air - how clean your bucket is to start with - and what else may fall or be blown by the wind into the water while it sits there in your driveway. After all water distilling is done in a controlled environment. Collecting rainwater is generally not as well controlled. That is how it is not the same thing.

 

[Tara_H]

I dunno the PH of rain in a big city, but something tells me it's probably acidic too.

Certainly in the 80s acid rain was a big thing! Although I feel it doesn't get mentioned so much these days but I wonder if air quality has really improved to the extent that it's no longer an issue?

 

[ResolvableOwl]

At least in Europe, sulfur emissions (SO₂ from coal fires/power plants) have declined by a large amount indeed (to the point where farmers have to fertilise with sulfur because the acid rain doesn't any more).

But NOx (nitric acid) are an ongoing issue, and will be as long as the society thinks it's a clever idea to drive cars and ships with dirty combustion engines.

On the other hand, in the practical concentrations, sulfuric and nitric acid are “well-behaved”, i. e. they won't do anything, considered you're throwing in ten thousand times their amount in NaOH anyway (the acid of one litre of acid rain, say, pH 4.2, is neutralised by whopping 0.025 g NaOH).

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Whether or not the sky is falling or air quality is improving depends on how you look at it. Persistent organic pollutants, from industry, cars, and agriculture also make it into the air and then into rainwater, groundwater, and drinking water supplies. One of the latest groups of concern is called PFAS. Like DDT, these “forever chemicals” don’t degrade. Monitoring networks set up around the Great Lakes region (US and Canada) and in North Carolina are detecting concentrations in rainwater that are high enough to cause health risks. Regulation isn’t easy because manufacturers create slight changes in the chemical structure to skirt the regulations.