BTMS 50 as substitute for BTMS 25 in liquid hair conditioner?

[MrsZ]

I would like to make this hair conditioner recipe from Whole Elise. It calls for BTMS 25, and I have BTMS 50 and want to use it if possible. Will that work? I like a thick conditioner, but I don't know if the BTMS 50 would make it too stiff. I apologize if this has already been covered here. I did search, but sometimes my finding skills are a little lacking.

Also, I don't have Cetrimonium Chloride. I can buy it easily, but I keep hearing that it has a high potential for irritation, and I think I read that it isn't considered a safe ingredient in Europe, so I might not use it. The Humblebee and Me ingredient encyclopedia says Honeyquat could be a substitute, but it doesn't say how. Could I replace the Cetrimonium Chloride 1:1 with the Honeyquat? I have Honeyquat already so it would be nice to use up.

I've made conditioner bars before, and prefer a liquid conditioner.

This is the recipe:

Water Phase:​

• 195g Distilled Water or Hydrosol
• 12.5g Cetrimonium Chloride
• 7.5g Glycerine
• 1.25g Guar Gum

Oil Phase:​

• 15g Coconut Oil
• 10g BTMS-25 (conditioning emulsifying wax)
• 5g Cetyl Alcohol

Cool Down 1:​

• 2.5g Hydrolysed Protein
• 2.5g D Panthenol (vitamin B5)
• 2.5g Preservative Eco (broad-spectrum preservative)
• 2.5g Vitamin E Oil (antioxidant)
• 2.5g (max) Essential Oils (optional)

Cool Down 2:​

• Citric Acid (pH Adjuster)

 

[DeeAnna]

Centrimonium chloride is a surfactant that has antiseptic and static eliminating properties. If you don't want to use it, I'd consider substituting water instead, not honeyquat, which is a humectant.

You've already got one humectant in the formulation -- the glycerin -- so I'm not sure I'd substitute honeyquat in place of the centrimonium chloride. Use one or the other humectant, but not a double dose.

I know people say BTMS 25 and BTMS 50 behave somewhat differently in lotions (which is essentially what you're making here), but when I've subbed one for the other, I haven't noticed much if any difference. But I make lotions only occasionally as a hobby and they're for my personal use. I'm sure I miss some of the nuances that more particular and experienced makers might notice.

Maybe you're like me and won't see a big difference; maybe you might. In the end, you'll simply have make a test batch and see what you think.

 

[MrsZ]

@DeeAnna thank you!

 

[DeeAnna]

Glad I could help. Remember though that these are my opinions, not hard facts. I hope others chime in with their perspectives.

 

[Saponificarian]

I have kinky 4C hair. I have to use BTMS 50. The same percentage of BTMS 25 doesn't work as well, and when I increased the percentage of BTMS 25 to try and match the quaternary portion in BTMS 50, the conditioner was too thick and still not as conditioning as BTMS 50. I think you have the better BTMS for conditioner.

You can substitute BTMS 50 1:1 for BMTS 25 and tweak if it is too conditioning {especially if you have fine hair}. In lotion, I don't think it will really matter much. The BTMS 25 might be slightly thicker because of the higher cetearyl alcohol, but I don't use BTMS in lotion.

 

[MrsZ]

I have kinky 4C hair. I have to use BTMS 50. The same percentage of BTMS 25 doesn't work as well, and when I increased the percentage of BTMS 25 to try and match the quaternary portion in BTMS 50, the conditioner was too thick and still not as conditioning as BTMS 50. I think you have the better BTMS for conditioner.

You can substitute BTMS 50 1:1 for BMTS 25 and tweak if it is too conditioning {especially if you have fine hair}. In lotion, I don't think it will really matter much. The BTMS 25 might be slightly thicker because of the higher cetearyl alcohol, but I don't use BTMS in lotion.

Thank you! I'll definitely go ahead with the btms 50.