Brambleberry _ IFRA

[lenarenee]

*sigh* I assumed that their calculator was "set" to the IFRA ratings of their fragrances. After all....isn't that responsible business? If it isn't representative of IFRA standards...then how are they doing it?

Guess an email to BB is in order. I have people who like quit a few of bb fo's. Like me! Apple Sage, Salty Mariner, Arabian Spice...

 

[Kiya]

Wow, this is why I love this form. I am a new soaper and had know idea about these certifications.(maybe because I am from US/ California) I just emailed brambleberry asking if they were IFRA certified and I asked why they dont have it posted.

I have only ordered oils from them so far so this is disturbing for me to hear. I hope they clear things up for me and everyone here. If I am out of luck and they are potentially dangerous where do you guys perchase safe quality fragrences from?

I usually prefer a more naturalistic approach. I don't know if there is such a thing with FO, yet if there is, I am open ears!

 

[lucycat]

IFRA are safe amounts for use but that doesn't correlate to how much fragrance is needed for a medium or strong scent. Although there are fragrance oils with an IFRA for soap of 3-6% there are also plenty of FO with an IFRA amount greater than 30%. Obviously that wouldn't be what you would use for soap. So, a fragrance calculator can't just be the IFRA amounts.

I don't know how Brambleberry calculates their scent amounts in the calculator and sometimes I think it is off for certain fragrances. However, if I want to purchase a scent where their recommended fragrance amount for a soap is low I wonder if it is due to a low IFRA percentage. I have always just asked Brambleberry for the IFRA statement. They have always responded promptly and forwarded me the IFRA report. On the fragrances that I have reports their fragrance calculator did not use more than the IFRA amount for soap.

 

[Lin19687]

Fo's are not natural, EO's are.

IFRA are safe amounts for use but that doesn't correlate to how much fragrance is needed for a medium or strong scent. Although there are fragrance oils with an IFRA for soap of 3-6% there are also plenty of FO with an IFRA amount greater than 30%. Obviously that wouldn't be what you would use for soap. So, a fragrance calculator can't just be the IFRA amounts.

I don't know how Brambleberry calculates their scent amounts in the calculator and sometimes I think it is off for certain fragrances. However, if I want to purchase a scent where their recommended fragrance amount for a soap is low I wonder if it is due to a low IFRA percentage. I have always just asked Brambleberry for the IFRA statement. They have always responded promptly and forwarded me the IFRA report. On the fragrances that I have reports their fragrance calculator did not use more than the IFRA amount for soap.

As nice as they are about providing 'when asked' not everyone wants to sit and type out an email about it. Nor do they want to type out over and over which scent, recipe in the Bb calc.

They have some Wonderful scents. I just don't understand, if they have it, why not just list it. It is simply just adding it to the coding (or type into spot for a D/D template website) and publishing. YEAH I know they have like 100 scents. Business wise, would you want to lose customers ? It's like repeating the ingredients in your soap 100 times in an hour.... not worth it and that is why we have it on our soaps

BIG EXAMPLE -- If you check out NG for Apple Jack Peel https://www.naturesgardencandles.com/apple-jack-peel-fragrance-oil you will see that the Usage rate is 1% Flash Point is 150F. I was going to buy it except for this reason I did not. So if my math is correct that is 0.16 oz PPO ?

Here is BB https://www.brambleberry.com/applejack-peel-fragrance-oil-p3905.aspx They list the MSDS which means crap to me since this one was an old type(?), but it says FP is 152F, and she lists in the ad 172F which is HUGE difference in my book. Also in her Calc is says to use 0.44 for light scent and 0.88 for strong, roughly 3-5% rates.. Can that be correct ?


I truly don't want to bash her, but putting misinformation in can hurt someone. That is just bad biz, kinda like selling a 1 day old CP soap bar

edit, if this sounds so damn snarky it is not meant to me, I didn't sleep last night so I may be a bit off today

 

[Moose Wrangler]

I realized this very thing today, sigh. I have a package showing up soon so I contacted Brambleberry for the IFRA report. To their credit they got it to me within a few hours (I'm impressed) but given how low the allowable rate of one FO is I probably won't even use it now.

It's odd to me that it's not on the site like so many other providers. I probably won't buy FO's from them again unless they start including the information on their website. Love the customer service and that it's a WA company but I don't want to have to email them every time I'm interested in an FO.

Lesson learned.

 

[lenarenee]

Fo's are not natural, EO's are.


As nice as they are about providing 'when asked' not everyone wants to sit and type out an email about it. Nor do they want to type out over and over which scent, recipe in the Bb calc.

They have some Wonderful scents. I just don't understand, if they have it, why not just list it. It is simply just adding it to the coding (or type into spot for a D/D template website) and publishing. YEAH I know they have like 100 scents. Business wise, would you want to lose customers ? It's like repeating the ingredients in your soap 100 times in an hour.... not worth it and that is why we have it on our soaps

BIG EXAMPLE -- If you check out NG for Apple Jack Peel https://www.naturesgardencandles.com/apple-jack-peel-fragrance-oil you will see that the Usage rate is 1% Flash Point is 150F. I was going to buy it except for this reason I did not. So if my math is correct that is 0.16 oz PPO ?

Here is BB https://www.brambleberry.com/applejack-peel-fragrance-oil-p3905.aspx They list the MSDS which means crap to me since this one was an old type(?), but it says FP is 152F, and she lists in the ad 172F which is HUGE difference in my book. Also in her Calc is says to use 0.44 for light scent and 0.88 for strong, roughly 3-5% rates.. Can that be correct ?


I truly don't want to bash her, but putting misinformation in can hurt someone. That is just bad biz, kinda like selling a 1 day old CP soap bar

edit, if this sounds so **** snarky it is not meant to me, I didn't sleep last night so I may be a bit off today

Wow - I was confused as to why you were asking the question until it finally dawned on me that you expected the fo to be the same formula from each company. (another sleep deprived person here!)

Yes, it's quite possible to have different flashpoint/usage rate because the fo formula from BB is not the same as the fo formula from NG despite the identical name. It's frustrating; I ordered BRV and Fresh Cut Roses from Nurture, loved them in soap, wanted to use in them in lotion but found that Nurture's usage rate is way too low for a leave on produtct and had to find an appropriate copy for the lotion I wanted.

(isn't sleep a wonderful thing?)

 

[SudsanSoaps]

Correct me if I’m wrong but the IFRA limit would basically be for people with sensitivity’s? So if the limit is 5% 99.5 people out of 100 would have no side effect. And at 3% usage rate math says 99.99% would have no reaction?

Guess I should see if google has any answers.

 

[lucycat]

Moose Wrangler - If you don't mind what was the IFRA amount and what product are you making? Also, what did Brambleberry recommend in their calculator?

I guess I haven't found an issue with Brambleberry because it is primarily a bath and body company and they use their oils for those purposes. Companies that started as candle fragrance companies have always been the ones I have wanted IFRA reports because they may not have the same testing or even use the fragrances in soap.

IFRA are European limits on chemical components in fragrances. You are right that some people do not have a problem with a higher rate but since those safety limits were put in place and wholesalers sell to European markets they follow them and it is hard to justify using more. For many years I used cinnamon and clove essential oils at rates that are more than IFRA but I don't do that now for products I sell.

 

[Lin19687]

@lenarenee NO, I do NOT expect all fo's to be made the same. I just compared 2 FO's that were the same name for comparison on FP and %'s.

 

[Moose Wrangler]

Moose Wrangler - If you don't mind what was the IFRA amount and what product are you making? Also, what did Brambleberry recommend in their calculator?

The FO was Bay Rum and the IFRA for soap (I'm doing cold process) is 5%. Max'ing out has it at 0.8 oz PPO (pretty normal recommendation for FO usage). I screenshot the recommendation rates from Brambleberry, for strong they list 0.8.

I know the 5% won't be considered a low allowance rate by many soapers but I've previously only used EO's as I was into those before venturing into soaping. I'm just not at a comfort level with FO's where I want to use something that IFRA says should be less than 10%, it's just an additional built in safety and peace of mind tool for me.

For what it's worth, the lowest rate on FO's that I've seen was 2% and the highest was 47%.

 

[lucycat]

I think it is hard to find a fragrance oil that has a spicy base with a high IFRA amount. They are also the ones I struggle with but clove and ceinnamon EO's so restricted any usage at all in the fragrance oil will cause the IFRA to be low. At least it is 5% and not the .5 and.8% I have seen that aren't usable at all for soap.

 

[lenarenee]

@lenarenee NO, I do NOT expect all fo's to be made the same. I just compared 2 FO's that were the same name for comparison on FP and %'s.

Then I'm still confused by your question.

 

[lenarenee]

I realized this very thing today, sigh. I have a package showing up soon so I contacted Brambleberry for the IFRA report. To their credit they got it to me within a few hours (I'm impressed) but given how low the allowable rate of one FO is I probably won't even use it now.

It's odd to me that it's not on the site like so many other providers. I probably won't buy FO's from them again unless they start including the information on their website. Love the customer service and that it's a WA company but I don't want to have to email them every time I'm interested in an FO.

Lesson learned.

Another forum member contacted Brambleberry and it was determined that their fragrance calculator was calculated with the IFRA rates. (I haven't confirmed this myself yet. Just for peace of mind.)

 

[Lin19687]

I wasn't the OP, I don't have a question. I don't buy my Fo's from BB
I buy from NG as they list what I need to know on the product, even Phthalate-Free, CA Prop 65 Reportable Ingredients,
Flash Point of Fragrance,
Vanillin Content of Fragrance

 

[Cellador]

Unless something has changed recently, BB's fragrance calculator provides usage amounts based on total batch size, not per pound of oils.

 

[lenarenee]

Unless something has changed recently, BB's fragrance calculator provides usage amounts based on total batch size, not per pound of oils.

That's fixable by simply entering the total weight of your oils.