Begginer ramblings, additives and crisco!

[Alfa_Lazcares]

Please bear with me. I have been reading, researching and thinking a lot this past week because i have not been soaping (i have a lot of bars curing and I’m running out of space!) so that left my mind go free... and here are the questions i have.

Well, the first one is not exactly a question, but something i noticed: I can smell the lard on the soap! I made a batch with 20% lard and another with 30? 40? I dont remember and dont have my notes with me, but anyway, i also made one with 100% lard. The first is two months old now, second is a month old and third is around 3 weeks. I can smell the lard in all of them! But the first two is more of a combination of the lard and the olive and the pure lard kinda reminded me of hotdogs...
I can smell the coconut oil in both the salt bars and the 100% coconut oil. But this is more pleasant and reminds more of laundry soap (think zote, its got coconut in it).
And i made one with coconut and olive (mostly olive) and i can smell the olive oil.
Oh! And i made the “shampoo bar” (of the thanks linndy? thread) and i can smell the avocado!
Am I gonna be the “weird one” than can smell the oils? And the FO will mask them, right? I dont mind the coconut, the olive or the avocado, but ugh! The lard! I love the creamy lather of the lard bars but i dont want to smell it! I also dont want to just dump the lard because the bars i made without it lack the creamy feeling of the lard.
Of course my mother thinks I’m crazy and she can only smell soap. But then again I am also a perfume fan so i kinda got used to try and identify the different scents.

Next point that is also an observation... my 100% lard bar is pink. Not super bright pink or anything but it is pink! And i keep reading lard makes white bars. Is that uh... normal? It depends on the lard? The lard looks yellowy-pinky.

And on to the questions: do you have an additive that you feel actually brings something to the soap? I’ve seen soaps made with everything, but other than label appeal, do you have additives that truly bring something to the soap?
Like milks for example are quite popular for creamy bars so I’m inclined to think they do bring something. But how about fruits, veggies or eggs?

For exfoliation i think is easier, I’ve been using ground oats and i quite like them. The salt on the salt bars is amazing.

How about the butters? Do they actually do something? I mean, other than becoming soap and, you know, clean.

I recently made a small batch of aloe vera soap, i have two plants and a lot of time apparently haha, so i scraped the gel, liquified it and used it instead of most of the water (not all since i only cut one small leaf and it wasnt enough for the whole water i needed). The batter turned out super creamy looking, but since i havent tried it yet (is about a week old now) i dont know if it did anything other than look pretty.

Lastly: do you cheat on your soaps? I mean: do you try them before they are done curing? How soon? The temptation is soooo powerfull! I wait 3 weeks before i try them and then let them be, but i sometimes feel i can resist! Does than happen to you?

Oh! And on my quest for color on my soaps, i came across “natural soaps” on the organic section of a pharmacy and the orangy one was colored with axiote. Duh! That is such a common thing here i can not believe i didnt think to use it for color. At least now i know it works since the soap looks pretty.

Dang, I lied, i do have a last question: what oils do you like to combine with crisco? I just got my very first can of that stuff and have not researched recipes with it yet (since i will not soap until i can make a bit of space for more bars!) and i am curious on to what oils do you prefer to combine with it. I was thinking coconut since i love me some coconut oils, and I will mix it with lard eventually cause i have to do it! But for starters i want a veggy crisco bar and maybe a 100% crisco if you think its worth it (even if just for the funsies).

Thank you guys! Any thoughts, experiences and advice will be very welcome

 

[artemis]

Wow! I'm not going to address all of these, but...

Lard scent: at first, I thought maybe it's the lard you have is maybe not clean enough? But, if you're smelling all those other oils, too and Mom isn't, then I think you are going to be the person who smells all the oils.

Additives: Sugars bring bubbles. Various milks, as you say. I like shea butter-- it just feels good. I also seem to end up with less ash on those bars. I like the egg yolk; it is a little creamier and leaves my hands feeling nice. I like the lanolin, too, in a tiny amount-- more to do with how my hands feel after. Fruits and vegetables mostly seem to just add bubbles, however my friend will only use my soap with the carrot puree. She is convinced the carrot is what makes it nice.

I always use a little scrap of soap as soon as it's not zappy.

 

[Obsidian]

Some people do have more sensitive noses, sounds like you are one of them. The FO should cover the scent of the oils.

With lard you have to be careful not to over heat it when melting. Get it just warm enough it's clear, too hot and it will smell more.

I've heard of lard turning pink but have never seen it myself and use lard at 50% in my soap. What brand are you using?

Some people say they notice butters in soap, I don't. At least not beyond reducing lather and making it creamier.
I also don't notice much from additives. The exceptions are exfoliators and aloe juice. Aloe can help boost lather.
Coconut milk in a can is another that makes a nice creamy bar. I personally don't feel animal milks bring anything to the soap but others do.

I don't like Crisco in any amounts. It has a lot of soybean oil in it and that can lead to rancid soap. If you do use it, only use 10-15%

If you want to try shortening, try good value from Walmart but make sure it's the can with the fried chicken picture. It's a combo of tallow and palm, use it in place of lard.

If you want a all veggie bar, try to find some spectrum shortening, it's just palm. I think target sells it but I can't remember for sure.

My favorite and simple recipe. SF at 5%

Lard or palm 50%
Olive or avocado 25%
Coconut 20%
Castor 5%

 

[earlene]

Hi, again, Alfa. Your use of time while waiting for curing is well spent! So great that you found another natural colorant. Achiote is also called annato seeds, and it is often used as a natural colorant, so that should work well for you. It's great that you have a place nearby where you can go to see how the natural colorants will look in soap. On those soaps you saw, is there any contact information for the soapmaker on the label? If there is, maybe you can contact them to ask where to buy some of the supplies you are having trouble finding.

I probably will only address some of your questions/observaions, also.

I smell lard after cure, but at least it isn't as totally nose-offending as when it is first made. But I still don't like it. If you want to cover the fragrance of the lard, I think it's a hit and miss or trial and error kind of thing, to find what works best for your nose. First, I would suggest you find really long-lasting scents for oils you want to obscure. Not all scents last a long time, and when the fragrance is gone, you are still left with the underlying smell of the soap. And as you've noticed, not all soap smells the same.

Regarding the pink color. I had that happen to me once, as well, but it was with a non-lard vegetable shortening. I had read when I was new to soaping, but don't have a reference to the location where I read it, that aluminum tainted shortening will turn pink. My first vegetable shortening that I used in soap came in a container lined with foil and also had a removable foil covering below the lid. So when that happened to that batch of soap, I remembered the thing about the foil and assumed it contained aluminum. Other than that one time, it hasn't happened again.

Additives that I like in soap: Egg yolks do make a very nice feeling soap. While lathering and washing with an egg yolk soap, there is a luxurious feel to it that I really enjoy.
I used aloe vera juice in all my soaps for awhile, but stopped after a few months. I may go back to it to see if I can determine if it made a real difference, because I don't remember why I stopped.
Lanolin in about 2-3% is something I also enjoy in soap, but I don't use it in all formulas. For me it feels like it really contributes to a conditioning type of soap.

True, there are many things you can add, and many of us have tried all kinds of things in soap. The experimentation of using different additives is part of the fun and since everyone's skin is variable, what my skin loves, yours might hate, so I encourage occasional experimentation. I have also noticed that depending on the environment, sometimes one formula works better than it does in another environment, so we need to take into account how the weather and seasons, and even the quality of the water we use when we bathe interact with the soap we make.

Using soap before it is cured? Sometimes, but I have so much soap, I don't really feel the urge that much. Sometimes I use it while still young just to see how different it will become when fully cured. Note-taking when doing that is quite useful, since my memory is not perfect.

 

[Alfa_Lazcares]

Wow! I'm not going to address all of these, but...

Lard scent: at first, I thought maybe it's the lard you have is maybe not clean enough? But, if you're smelling all those other oils, too and Mom isn't, then I think you are going to be the person who smells all the oils.

Additives: Sugars bring bubbles. Various milks, as you say. I like shea butter-- it just feels good. I also seem to end up with less ash on those bars. I like the egg yolk; it is a little creamier and leaves my hands feeling nice. I like the lanolin, too, in a tiny amount-- more to do with how my hands feel after. Fruits and vegetables mostly seem to just add bubbles, however my friend will only use my soap with the carrot puree. She is convinced the carrot is what makes it nice.

I always use a little scrap of soap as soon as it's not zappy.

The first time i could smell and oil was actually the olive, the next one was the lard. I thought someting along the lines of “please dont tell me this lard is rancid” but nope. It looks and smells fine (of lard), so its not anything wrong with it that i can see.
I’ll keep those in mind for future soaps, thank you. Specially the carrot, since I think I’m gonna use it for its color anyway.

Some people do have more sensitive noses, sounds like you are one of them. The FO should cover the scent of the oils.

With lard you have to be careful not to over heat it when melting. Get it just warm enough it's clear, too hot and it will smell more.

I've heard of lard turning pink but have never seen it myself and use lard at 50% in my soap. What brand are you using?

Some people say they notice butters in soap, I don't. At least not beyond reducing lather and making it creamier.
I also don't notice much from additives. The exceptions are exfoliators and aloe juice. Aloe can help boost lather.
Coconut milk in a can is another that makes a nice creamy bar. I personally don't feel animal milks bring anything to the soap but others do.

I don't like Crisco in any amounts. It has a lot of soybean oil in it and that can lead to rancid soap. If you do use it, only use 10-15%

If you want to try shortening, try good value from Walmart but make sure it's the can with the fried chicken picture. It's a combo of tallow and palm, use it in place of lard.

If you want a all veggie bar, try to find some spectrum shortening, it's just palm. I think target sells it but I can't remember for sure.

My favorite and simple recipe. SF at 5%

Lard or palm 50%
Olive or avocado 25%
Coconut 20%
Castor 5%

Yes, I have used lard for cooking (only one recipe) and boy does it smell. I made sure to only heat it until clear, but even before its fully melted i can smell it.

My soaps with a combination of lard and other things didnt turn pink, they look yellowy because the olive oil i have is quite green. Only the 100% lard is pinky. i’ll attach a picture of the soap and the lard i use.

Those are additives I will try eventually (well aloe already tried) and coconut milk will probably be the next.

I am in Mexico so no Target, GV shortening or anything like that. I got the crisco for the palm (cause i cant buy palm) and because its really the first time i see it here.

Thanks for the recipe! Thats pretty much the oils i have been using (except for palm), but in different proportions. I’m still playing around with proportions.

Hi, again, Alfa. Your use of time while waiting for curing is well spent! So great that you found another natural colorant. Achiote is also called annato seeds, and it is often used as a natural colorant, so that should work well for you. It's great that you have a place nearby where you can go to see how the natural colorants will look in soap. On those soaps you saw, is there any contact information for the soapmaker on the label? If there is, maybe you can contact them to ask where to buy some of the supplies you are having trouble finding.

I probably will only address some of your questions/observaions, also.

I smell lard after cure, but at least it isn't as totally nose-offending as when it is first made. But I still don't like it. If you want to cover the fragrance of the lard, I think it's a hit and miss or trial and error kind of thing, to find what works best for your nose. First, I would suggest you find really long-lasting scents for oils you want to obscure. Not all scents last a long time, and when the fragrance is gone, you are still left with the underlying smell of the soap. And as you've noticed, not all soap smells the same.

Regarding the pink color. I had that happen to me once, as well, but it was with a non-lard vegetable shortening. I had read when I was new to soaping, but don't have a reference to the location where I read it, that aluminum tainted shortening will turn pink. My first vegetable shortening that I used in soap came in a container lined with foil and also had a removable foil covering below the lid. So when that happened to that batch of soap, I remembered the thing about the foil and assumed it contained aluminum. Other than that one time, it hasn't happened again.

Additives that I like in soap: Egg yolks do make a very nice feeling soap. While lathering and washing with an egg yolk soap, there is a luxurious feel to it that I really enjoy.
I used aloe vera juice in all my soaps for awhile, but stopped after a few months. I may go back to it to see if I can determine if it made a real difference, because I don't remember why I stopped.
Lanolin in about 2-3% is something I also enjoy in soap, but I don't use it in all formulas. For me it feels like it really contributes to a conditioning type of soap.

True, there are many things you can add, and many of us have tried all kinds of things in soap. The experimentation of using different additives is part of the fun and since everyone's skin is variable, what my skin loves, yours might hate, so I encourage occasional experimentation. I have also noticed that depending on the environment, sometimes one formula works better than it does in another environment, so we need to take into account how the weather and seasons, and even the quality of the water we use when we bathe interact with the soap we make.

Using soap before it is cured? Sometimes, but I have so much soap, I don't really feel the urge that much. Sometimes I use it while still young just to see how different it will become when fully cured. Note-taking when doing that is quite useful, since my memory is not perfect.

Ah, yes, I have read of annato seeds. The thing about finding stuff about soaps in another languaje is that i have to make some translations of words i dont usually use, like the names of the plants, i have to find the scientific name and then try to find oit how it is locally called haha. Now i know.

I usually browse that section of the pharmacy bevause i find ir amusing, and this is the first time i see that soap! It is not “hand made”, but it more targeted for the green/organic/natural people out there. Packagig was a box made out of recicles carboad. They only had 3 kinds, a white one with chunks of rosemary and a veeerry potent rosemary scent, a blue one that i dont remember what it was supposed to smell like, colored with alkanet root and the orange one colored with axiote and smelled like a veeeery potent mandarin. They claim only using EO’s and the oil list was a blend of olive, coconut, palm and maybe other. I’m gonna try and find them online, their adress is not too too far from my home.

I mean, I wont give up the lard because of how it smells... but dang! I always read about the piggy smell and its so true. Although i am mot sure i would discribe it a piggy. But it is definetly the lard. And yes, melted lard is quite ofensive to my nose haha.

My lard comes on a plastic bag, so unles it was in touch with aluminum before that... i mean, maybe. I attached the pic in another reply.

Lanolin i am curious about since i know i can get it easily. I may have to add it to the “to try” list.

I will probably experiment with several things too, i just would like to start with “tried and true” stuff.

I am only 2 months and some days on to my soaping journey that i cant resist the temptation of knowing how handmade soaps perform. Even if they are lard scented!

 

[steffamarie]

I am only 2 months and some days on to my soaping journey that i cant resist the temptation of knowing how handmade soaps perform. Even if they are lard scented!

I'm the same way!! I've got some soap that's only been cut and curing for a couple of weeks and I can't resist trying it out, even knowing it's not going to perform the same now as in a month or so. Such temptation!!

 

[Alfa_Lazcares]

I'm the same way!! I've got some soap that's only been cut and curing for a couple of weeks and I can't resist trying it out, even knowing it's not going to perform the same now as in a month or so. Such temptation!!

Talking about that and my sense of smell: i just tried a bar! It was made 3 weeks ago and i used some cocoa powder to make a bit of a swirl. Well, first off I LOVE how this soap performs! Is super creamy and supper bubbly. This recipe is a keeper for sure.
Second: at the veeeery veeeery back i can smell a hint of the cocoa powder. Is not chocolate and its not sweet, its suuper duper faint but i do believe is there. Granted it can be me just imagining things but i do believe a super vage hint of cocoa is there.

Maybe one day we will be patient enough to not try the soaps until they are done curing... but that day has not come yet hahaha!

 

[steffamarie]

Talking about that and my sense of smell: i just tried a bar! It was made 3 weeks ago and i used some cocoa powder to make a bit of a swirl. Well, first off I LOVE how this soap performs! Is super creamy and supper bubbly. This recipe is a keeper for sure.
Second: at the veeeery veeeery back i can smell a hint of the cocoa powder. Is not chocolate and its not sweet, its suuper duper faint but i do believe is there. Granted it can be me just imagining things but i do believe a super vage hint of cocoa is there.

Maybe one day we will be patient enough to not try the soaps until they are done curing... but that day has not come yet hahaha!

Si esto está mal, no quiero tener razón XD
(I have no idea if that saying even translates - or what the Spanish equivalent would be - but if trying our soaps too early is wrong, I don't want to be right! lol)

 

[Holly8991]

Not to hijack but since it was mentioned here.....GV shortening...The only one my Walmart carries is all Veggie? It has a pie on the front. Not chicken. Is this ok to use? I bought it because hello! It is super cheap but havent tried it out.

 

[steffamarie]

Not to hijack but since it was mentioned here.....GV shortening...The only one my Walmart carries is all Veggie? It has a pie on the front. Not chicken. Is this ok to use? I bought it because hello! It is super cheap but havent tried it out.

That’s the kind I bought! Soaped well

 

[Holly8991]

whew!

 

[lenarenee]

I love your excitement and how you're curious about every part of soap making. I don't have time to address everything though.

As for waiting until soap is cured to test....I never do. I start testing a few days after I cut, but only on my hands, not a whole bath or shower. I do use my high lard soap at 3 weeks in the shower.

Lard smell: the lard I use does smell like lard so I guess that's the piggy smell everyone talks about. It's enough to know that it's not tallow, Crisco, olive oil or anything else. Overheating the lard makes it smell more - even in finished soap.

But to my nose, a 65% lard soap (without any fragrance added) doesn't smell piggy - it smells "fatty" or "oily". I used to blame it on the lard until I used my all vegetable soap (high olive oil, 15% coconut and 5% castor) and smelled a very similar fatty scent.

I've never had a pinkish lard soap and I've made hundreds of bars of high lard soap.

As for additive: my high lard recipe (55% or higher) doesn't need any additives! Milk, silk, butters...are all wasted in it if you ask me.

In vegetable oil soaps, I do like milk (powdered, added after I mix oils and lye to emulsion to prevent smell), coconut milk, shea butter. I don't like sugar because it makes the bubbles tougher and changes their shape.

Gotta run and make dinner.

 

[Obsidian]

Not to hijack but since it was mentioned here.....GV shortening...The only one my Walmart carries is all Veggie? It has a pie on the front. Not chicken. Is this ok to use? I bought it because hello! It is super cheap but havent tried it out.

Of course its fine to use but check the ingredients, if it has a lot of soy, use it at lower amounts. My walmart doesn't carry the meat based GV anymore but its worth it to track down. Its nearly as nice as lard, has no scent and is cheap.

 

[psfred]

I have had some lard go pink, although it could also be the FO I used (Egyptian Dragon from Bulk Apothecary). Just a faint pinkish cast, not bright.

You may be able to smell fats more than other people, sense of smell is as individual as any other human characteristic. I cannot abide things like Fierce, Drakkar, and similar scents, they arehugely overpowering to me -- ditto for some of the new Old Spice scents, they gag me in the grocery before I even pick them up. Obviously I smell something much more strongly than other people!

The GV shortening will work fine, it's palm and hydrogenated soy I think. Will make a nice middle of the road soap. I prefer the tallow version -- it makes a 50:50 balanced soap right out of the can. It's also available at some IGA stores as a different brand, just look for the one that says "animal fats" on it. Can't get much easier to make soap, just weight, melt, and add your lye!

 

[Alfa_Lazcares]

Si esto está mal, no quiero tener razón XD
(I have no idea if that saying even translates - or what the Spanish equivalent would be - but if trying our soaps too early is wrong, I don't want to be right! lol)

Yes, that's pretty much it You could also say "espero" which means I hope and it is used in those kinds of phrases haha. Maybe 10 years in to our soap making we'll stop

I love your excitement and how you're curious about every part of soap making. I don't have time to address everything though.

As for waiting until soap is cured to test....I never do. I start testing a few days after I cut, but only on my hands, not a whole bath or shower. I do use my high lard soap at 3 weeks in the shower.

Lard smell: the lard I use does smell like lard so I guess that's the piggy smell everyone talks about. It's enough to know that it's not tallow, Crisco, olive oil or anything else. Overheating the lard makes it smell more - even in finished soap.

But to my nose, a 65% lard soap (without any fragrance added) doesn't smell piggy - it smells "fatty" or "oily". I used to blame it on the lard until I used my all vegetable soap (high olive oil, 15% coconut and 5% castor) and smelled a very similar fatty scent.

I've never had a pinkish lard soap and I've made hundreds of bars of high lard soap.

As for additive: my high lard recipe (55% or higher) doesn't need any additives! Milk, silk, butters...are all wasted in it if you ask me.

In vegetable oil soaps, I do like milk (powdered, added after I mix oils and lye to emulsion to prevent smell), coconut milk, shea butter. I don't like sugar because it makes the bubbles tougher and changes their shape.

Gotta run and make dinner.

Hahaha, thank you, I really like researching this kinds of things because I want to do it right!

I used my all vegetable soap and it doesnt smell like the lard one, it does smell a bit... oily, but not the same. At last not to my nose. The word that comes tome mind is "clean", like, using both side by side, the lard one smells salty and the veggy one smells clean, like the kind of clean you think of when you open your window after the rain. Eh, I might be just imagining things haha.

My high lard soaps dont end up pinky (ha, okay, THE high lard soap I have made so far), just the 100% lard did it. usually my soaps end up yellow because my olive it quite green.

For the powdered milk does it matter if its skimmed, light, or any other variation?
What do you mean about the change of the bubbles? Tht's the first time I see someone saying that!

I have had some lard go pink, although it could also be the FO I used (Egyptian Dragon from Bulk Apothecary). Just a faint pinkish cast, not bright.

You may be able to smell fats more than other people, sense of smell is as individual as any other human characteristic. I cannot abide things like Fierce, Drakkar, and similar scents, they arehugely overpowering to me -- ditto for some of the new Old Spice scents, they gag me in the grocery before I even pick them up. Obviously I smell something much more strongly than other people!

The GV shortening will work fine, it's palm and hydrogenated soy I think. Will make a nice middle of the road soap. I prefer the tallow version -- it makes a 50:50 balanced soap right out of the can. It's also available at some IGA stores as a different brand, just look for the one that says "animal fats" on it. Can't get much easier to make soap, just weight, melt, and add your lye!

Oh, I know, my boyfriend loves perfume as much as I do, so he has a small collection, one of them being Sauvage, the one with Johnny Depp as spokesman. So the boyfriend decides to wear it for the first time to our date, he arrives to my house and I just run to open the door for him and run back in to the cooking I was making. He was halfway in and I could already smell him like super loud and clear. He didnt think he was wearing much. Lol.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I can always smell lard, too, and can't tolerate it above about 25% no matter the FO trying to cover it up.