Bay Laurel Oil in cp

[Ifiyenia]

I' ve already warned everybody in my first post here, that as a relatively new soap maker, I'll have like a million questions, so be patience with me

Well, during the last months of browsing, I was really surprised that I've never come across any recipe, formula, info, lye calculator, whatever about using Bay Laurel Oil in soap making.

Here in Greece, bay laurel oil is very popular concerning hair issues, I've found it in recipes of my grandma and mom, you can buy it almost in every health food store or drug store, etc.
It is well known for providing nourishment and enhancing hair shine, controls excess dandruff, but most important, it helps a great deal with hair loss (talking out of experience). Plus, it's rich in vitamin E and fatty acids.

The closest thing to our Bay Laurel Oil/Olive Oil soaps that I found online is the Allepo soap (if I spell it correct), which is completely unknown here as a name, but I guess it's pretty much the same thing.

So, what's the case, is it unknown, or too expensive, or not popular in US, UK etc?

Any ideas how I could incorporate it in cp since I can't find it in any lye calculator?

I would really love to use it in my products, but I can't seem to find a way how.

Any ideas anybody?
:?:

 

[Ifiyenia]

Some googling later I found out that the IV (iodine value) of bay laurel oil is 105.15 and its SV (saponification value) is 220.62.

Also that it contains 4.5% Myristic Acid and 26.5% Lauric acid...

Do these data help in any way?

 

[krissy]

ok, is this an essential oil? i am not finding any oil other than the bay laurel EO. if that is the case, just add .5 oz ppo like you would for scent. or blend it with another EO or some FO if you dont like it. if you want to try to keep more of it's properties, do your batch HP and add it after the cook. HTH, Krissy

 

[Ifiyenia]

My mistake, Krissy, for not explaining better.

Bay Laurel produces an e.o. and it could be used as you described of course.

On the other hand, what is known here in Greece as Bay Laurel Oil, is produced by laurel leaf extract in olive oil, enriched with laurel essential oil.

Well, I guess I will use the bay laurel e.o. after all.

 

[IrishLass]

On another soaping forum that I frequent, they just recently had a thread on Aleppo soap. From the thread, I learned that bay laurel oil is not the same thing as the EO. From what I was able to glean elsewhere on the net, it's the fatty oil content (as opposed to the EO content) from the berry of the laurel bay tree that is used in Aleppo soap, and it is used anywhere from around 20% to 40% in the soap with the remaining balance being olive oil.

So, what's the case, is it unknown, or too expensive, or not popular in US, UK etc?

I don't know if it's completely unknown in the US or not (I live in the US), but speaking only for myself, I personally have never seen it being sold here at any of the stores and websites I frequent. I see the EO being sold lots of places, but I've never seen the fatty oil type. For what it's worth, a soaper from Victoria, B.C. posted in that Aleppo thread on the other forum that it has been deemed toxic and cannot be sold in Canada (she had tried buying some to make some Aleppo soap). She said she could import it from outside, but that the cost was too prohibitive ($400.00 a gallon :shock: ), and she would have to commit to buying a whole barrel of it. She declined.



IrishLass

 

[frieda]

It might be a product typical for Southern Europe. Me in (colder) Western Europe, I also never heard of it...

 

[carolyntn]

Irishlass is correct about the difference between the fatty oil and the essential oil. I have never heard of the oil being toxic, though. Here in France many people use Aleppo soap. It can have a smell that some people find unpleasant. I would love to make soap with laurel bay berry oil, but am unable to find any. Iflyenia do you have a good online source?
[/quote]

 

[Guest]

On few sites, you can find a short description of fatty acids and their properties:

http://www.saratogascents.com/soap_maki ... rties.html

Example:

Myristic Acid: Hard bar, cleansing, fluffy lather

 

[Ifiyenia]

IrishLass, you are right, Laurel Bay Oil is the oil produced from the berries of the laurel bay tree but also from the leaves of the tree (by the way, I have a huge Laurel Bay Tree in my balcony )

But, Gosh, $400.00 a gallon, that's unthinkable! Do these people expect ever to sell their products abroad? I mean it's not like it's Damaskus Rose e.o. we're talking about laurel bay tree oil!

My grandma used to make it by herself. Even I could make it, if I was not too lazy to do so. There are actually two methods to do that.
The one (which is practically an infusion and the easiest one), is simple really if you know how to infuse herbs in oil. You just take the bay leaves, fill a jar by half with the leaves and fill up with olive oil.
Second method (my grandma's which is more difficult), needs the berries of the laurel bay tree. You collect the berries when they are ripe (black in color) and you simmer them in water.
Unfortunately, I don't know the details -how much water, how much berries, time of shimmering- but the general idea is that after some time of simmering, the oil of the berries will separate and rise to the surface. At this point, you just collect it with cotton or gauze.

carolyntn, you mean a source from where you could buy?

 

[carolyntn]

Iflyenia-exactly. An online source for buying (in a reasonable quantity) the oil. Thanks!

 

[pure&simple]

Hi, Ifiyenia,

Here in Southern France Aleppo soap is very popular. For the good quality ones, one has to buy it in a natural (organic) health food store, at least the people that I know buy their soaps from such a place. It costs about 4 euros for a 200g bar with 20% bay laurel oil. The more bay laurel oil the soap has, the more it costs.

My husband loves Aleppo soap. We were lucky enough to go to Syria before all the violence and our guide conned us into buying 200 dollars worth of Aleppo soap through him, telling us that he will send to us but he never did. I could have kicked our bottoms for believing in what he told us.

The only positive result from that is that I discovered how to make my own soaps. I now make my 'Aleppo' soaps with GM and I must tell you, it's the best.

I tried the boiling method of extracting the oil from the berries but it's not worth it. You must have A LOT of berries and a long time of boiling to make some oil. Now, I just infuse my olive oil in crushed and dried bay and olive leaves (we have a lot of a lot olive trees). I infuse the oil in a big container and I just add more dried leaves and oil whenever I think about it.

 

[Ifiyenia]

Iflyenia-exactly. An online source for buying (in a reasonable quantity) the oil. Thanks!

After hours of googling, I'm afraid I found nothing of help.
Although Laurel Bay Oil is very popular and easy to find here in most organic food stores and pharmacies, I couldn't find any supplier that sells in usa

The only one I've found so far, is Apivita, a greek company that also sells in rest of Europe and Australia too.
Their price for Europe is 11.10Euro/100ml and for Australia is 33.90AusDollars/100 ml.
They are somehow expensive but their products are pure organic. Anyways, here's their link

For Europe
http://www.apivita.com/organic-laurel-oil.html
For Australia
http://www.apivita.com/au/organic-laurel-oil.html

Sorry I couldn't be of more help to you.

 

[Ifiyenia]

Hi, Ifiyenia,

Here in Southern France Aleppo soap is very popular. For the good quality ones, one has to buy it in a natural (organic) health food store, at least the people that I know buy their soaps from such a place. It costs about 4 euros for a 200g bar with 20% bay laurel oil. The more bay laurel oil the soap has, the more it costs.

My husband loves Aleppo soap. We were lucky enough to go to Syria before all the violence and our guide conned us into buying 200 dollars worth of Aleppo soap through him, telling us that he will send to us but he never did. I could have kicked our bottoms for believing in what he told us.

The only positive result from that is that I discovered how to make my own soaps. I now make my 'Aleppo' soaps with GM and I must tell you, it's the best.

I tried the boiling method of extracting the oil from the berries but it's not worth it. You must have A LOT of berries and a long time of boiling to make some oil. Now, I just infuse my olive oil in crushed and dried bay and olive leaves (we have a lot of a lot olive trees). I infuse the oil in a big container and I just add more dried leaves and oil whenever I think about it.

Thanks for letting me know about the boiling method. Somehow I knew it would be too much trouble, at least for a woman of our time.

So often, when I find myself exhausted by the end of the day, I wonder how my grandma found the time and patience to do this plus making her own bread everyday, cook for a big family everyday, have her own greenhouse and goats too, her vegetable garden, her flowers, did all the house chores, raise kids, attend church always, and making soap too!
We really owe respect to these old mamas

By the way, if I understand right, you calculate your bay oil infusion as olive oil in your recipes, since you infuse the bay leaves in olive, yes?

 

[carolyntn]

Iflyenia thank you so much! I didn't wish for you to spend hours looking - but thank you! I couldn't find suppliers either I've scoured every natural and organic store, middle eastern store and also pharmacies here in the French town I am in with no such luck. I can buy the Aleppo soap, but can not find the oil. Hmmmm I've always wanted to visit Greece ....

 

[pure&simple]

Ifiyenia,

Yes, I just calculate my bay oil as just olive oil since I have now idea how much 'bay oil' is in the infusion.

I just think of it as olive soap with bay oil. :twisted:

 

[Ifiyenia]

Ifiyenia,

Yes, I just calculate my bay oil as just olive oil since I have now idea how much 'bay oil' is in the infusion.

I just think of it as olive soap with bay oil. :twisted:

Thanks a lot :wink:

 

[Mood Indigo]

Hi Ifiyenia! I'm a new soaper and I'm from Athens too. Two weeks ago I planned to make a batch of Aleppo type soap but after spending hours and hours in google searching for a recipe I realized that the original aleppo is a HP soap! I make soaps only with the CP method. So I saw that your last post on this topic was on August and I was wondering if you had any success with laurel bay oil since then. I do believe that this type of soap is great because I tried it and it worked magically on my fine oily hair. It would be nice to hear from you.

 

[pure&simple]

This website has bay oil. It's from Germany and of course in German- look under öl u. butter -- Lorbeeröl

http://www.gisellamanske.com

 

[Fragola]

I realized that the original aleppo is a HP soap!

Some thoughts regarding the difference between HP and CP.

My understanding is that the oil used comes from bay berries and probably contains some essential oil. Somebody commented that this EO has a certain degree of toxicity and boiling it, will evaporate some of it. Just a theory ...