Basic (Stuff I have Lying Around) Soap

[kdm]

Taking on board as many lessons as I can from an over-soft, under whisked first stab and an seriously over-lyed second batch, I'm still striving for a plain bar soap recipe containing simple stuff which folk have under the kitchen sink. One lesson is that it does no harm to run a recipe by you folk before I press "Go". Hoping for comments on the below ingredients, please.

100g Olive Oil
100g Sunflower Oil
500g Lard
30g Aloe Extract
5g Beeswax
93g NaOH in 220ml Water

I know it'll make a bar soap, but what properties is it likely to have and what's the effect of adjusting the quantities?

Thanks!

 

[ResolvableOwl]

What is the “aloe extract”? Is it similar to aloe gel/juice, i. e. watery? If yes, then it won't affect the saponification, but you'd have to account for its water content (i. e. lye concentration not 30% but rather 27%). But there are also oily aloe extracts out there (“aloe butter” etc.) that would have to be included into oil/lye balance.

Given that you already have collected experience with lye concentrations at/beyond the limits of what has proven useful for many soapers, I'd suggest to cut down water to a boring 35% lye, i. e. 170 g water (including the aloe if relevant).

In any case, it'll be a slow-moving recipe, that will probably take a long time to come to trace – but it will give a soap of decent hardness in the end.
Not using coconut oil is fine. The soap won't be a lather wonder (though the aloe probably helps here!), but it will be very mild and gentle.

One word to the sunflower oil: Don't be tempted to increase its proportion, except when you're sure that it is high-oleic. Regular sunflower oil brings a lot of linoleic acid, which makes a very gentle and silky soap, but does no good to hardness, and increases the chances for the soap to go rancid. If your soap starts developing a foul odour and yellow-orange spots (“DOS”) after a few weeks or longer, you probably should cut down sunflower oil, and/or add chelators and antioxidants to delay rancidity.

 

[kdm]

What is the “aloe extract”? Is it similar to aloe gel/juice, i. e. watery? If yes, then it won't affect the saponification, but you'd have to account for its water content (i. e. lye concentration not 30% but rather 27%). But there are also oily aloe extracts out there (“aloe butter” etc.) that would have to be included into oil/lye balance.

Yes, it's the leaf juice. Not an oily extract.

Given that you already have collected experience with lye concentrations at/beyond the limits of what has proven useful for many soapers, I'd suggest to cut down water to a boring 35% lye, i. e. 170 g water (including the aloe if relevant).

Crumbs... Min recommended by calculator is 180ml. I'll run with that. I know I can dissolve it. (Accounting for Aloe Water!) I thuoght I was going to get kicked for using too little water...!

In any case, it'll be a slow-moving recipe, that will probably take a long time to come to trace – but it will give a soap of decent hardness in the end.
Not using coconut oil is fine. The soap won't be a lather wonder (though the aloe probably helps here!), but it will be very mild and gentle.

OKay. That works.

One word to the sunflower oil: Don't be tempted to increase its proportion, except when you're sure that it is high-oleic. Regular sunflower oil brings a lot of linoleic acid, which makes a very gentle and silky soap, but does no good to hardness, and increases the chances for the soap to go rancid. If your soap starts developing a foul odour and yellow-orange spots (“DOS”) after a few weeks or longer, you probably should cut down sunflower oil, and/or add chelators and antioxidants to delay rancidity.

Noted. Thank you.

 

[TheGecko]

I'm still striving for a plain bar soap recipe containing simple stuff which folk have under the kitchen sink.

I know folks in England are a little strange...you have your washing machine in the kitchen, but do you really store your food items under the sink? I'm just kidding...I get why washing machines are in the kitchen and that ya'll think it's strange for us Yanks to have rooms dedicated to washing clothes.

As to the properties of your recipe...I looked for "Aloe Extract" under several soap calculators and could only find Aloe Butter. A Google search reveals that "Aloe Extract" is simply another name for what we know in the States as "Aloe Vera" which is usually in a gel form. As such, it should be calculated in the Water portion of your recipe, not the oils/butters, like this:

100g Olive Oil
100g Sunflower Oil
500g Lard
5g Beeswax

93g NaOH in 220ml Water and 30g Aloe Extract

With that said, your weight for NaOH is correct, but your water is wrong (even without the Aloe)...it's less than 30% Lye Concentration. More water equals longer time to unmold, longer time to cure, softer soap, soda ash, rancidity, etc.

Based solely on the base ingredients, that combination would be creamy and conditioning, but would not be very cleansing and have almost no bubbles or lather.

I think a more "kitchen sink" recipe would be, using percentages for resizing and actual weights for 4-150g bars:

10% Castor Oil (39.69g)
30% Coconut Oil (119.07g)
30% Lard (119.07g)
30% Olive Oil (119.07g)

33% Lye Solution
(132.67g Distilled Water***, 56.86g Sodium Hydroxide)

*** - You can substitute Aloe Vera Gel up to 50%.

Soap Bar Qualities are fairly middle of the road.

Don't mix volume and weight. As I said before, while volume and weight may be the same when it comes to water, it's not the same when it comes to other ingredients because of density. It's just a good habit to use weight (mass unit). It's also a good idea to think in percentages as it makes resize and checking recipes so much easier (you should ALWAYS run every soap recipes through a soap calculator).

There are of course, exceptions. I will weigh my scents (FOs/EOs), but I don't weigh my colorants. I weigh my scents because someone can be physically harmed if I don't follow safe usage rates, but I've never heard of someone becoming ill because I used too much mica or clay. Also, weighing out colorants can be a real PITA...a teaspoon of Mica weighs just 0.03 oz (0.99 grams).

 

[kdm]

I know folks in England are a little strange...you have your washing machine in the kitchen, but do you really store your food items under the sink? I'm just kidding...I get why washing machines are in the kitchen and that ya'll think it's strange for us Yanks to have rooms dedicated to washing clothes.

My house has a laundry. The dishwasher is in the location most folks might have their washing machine.

As to the properties of your recipe...I looked for "Aloe Extract" under several soap calculators and could only find Aloe Butter. A Google search reveals that

Noted, thanks.

With that said, your weight for NaOH is correct, but your water is wrong (even without the Aloe)...it's less than 30% Lye Concentration. More water equals longer time to unmold, longer time to cure, softer soap, soda ash, rancidity, etc.

Nobody seems to have any love for the-sage lye calculator today! Yes, I'll try a different calculator!

Don't mix volume and weight. As I said before, while volume and weight may be the same when it comes to water, it's not the same when it comes to other ingredients because of density.

I'm not sure where I got a reputation for not understanding that. I'm an aerospace engineer. The only one thing I ever measured in ml was water. I'm so glad you draw the distinction between weight and mass, though. Weight would, of course, be measured in Newtons!

Everything seems to have coconut oil in. I think I'd better get some. Thanks!

 

[TheGecko]

Nobody seems to have any love for the-sage lye calculator today! Yes, I'll try a different calculator!

SoapCalc was the one I started with and I stayed with since it wasn't linked to any one supplier.

I'm not sure where I got a reputation for not understanding that. I'm an aerospace engineer. The only one thing I ever measured in ml was water. I'm so glad you draw the distinction between weight and mass, though. Weight would, of course, be measured in Newtons!

Could be because you continue to use volume as opposed to mass. I'm an accountant by-the-way...we use a 100 minute clock as opposed to a 60 minute clock. As for Newtons...I only know the horrible cookie.

 

[kdm]

Could be because you continue to use volume as opposed to mass. I'm an accountant by-the-way...we use a 100 minute clock as opposed to a 60 minute clock.

Only for water. I have a really good measuring cylinder.
Accountants and Engineers are mortal enemies. Outside this forum, obviously!

 

[kdm]

Back on topic. My workspace:

Boom diggidy, no doubt: my hydroxide has dissolved in my water this time.

My oil melting process is a bit <insert your own verb here> but it works.

...and the pour was pretty damned good, which made it a hellovalot easier to clean my kit.

I think I over-whisked it. It took ages to trace, then went over really suddenly. It gelled really quickly after I poured it, and I think it's full of air bubbles.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Wow, that's a breathtakingly <insert your own adjective here> workshop!!!

went over really suddenly

My suspicion what happened there is a mild/atypical type of false trace, triggered by the beeswax. I myself have never worked with beeswax in soap, but from beeswax in other context I know that once it has decided to solidify, it'll do so no matter what you do (except for heating up again).
A high-lard recipe will be hard enough on its own – you aren't reliant on beeswax. Consider leaving it out next time, to watch if it is more well-behaved.

Congrats to a fabulous soap! Keep us updated how it goes (soda ash, cutting, etc.). And (you haven't heard that from me ) you totally can test your soap after a few days already (once no longer zappy). It'll be too soft/soluble still and far from its final lather skills, but when curiosity hits hard, succumb to it.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I hope you also have a fire extinguisher

 

[Marsi]

beautiful

 

[melinda48]

SoapCalc was the one I started with and I stayed with since it wasn't linked to any one supplier.



Could be because you continue to use volume as opposed to mass. I'm an accountant by-the-way...we use a 100 minute clock as opposed to a 60 minute clock. As for Newtons...I only know the horrible cookie.

I use Soapcalc or Soapmakers Friend as my go-to sources.

 

[kdm]

Wow, that's a breathtakingly <insert your own adjective here> workshop!!!

It's a working workshop. not one of these excessively tidy things where the owner spends more time licking it clean than using it. Yes.

Congrats to a fabulous soap! Keep us updated how it goes (soda ash, cutting, etc.). And (you haven't heard that from me ) you totally can test your soap after a few days already (once no longer zappy). It'll be too soft/soluble still and far from its final lather skills, but when curiosity hits hard, succumb to it.

I was going to ask about that. It's zappy on all 5 surfaces except the top. The top had air. The rest were suffocated by silicone. Is that he reason?

 

[kdm]

I hope you also have a fire extinguisher ❤

Some.
I don' have the tidiest shop in the world, but I ain' no foo'.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I was going to ask about that. It's zappy on all 5 surfaces except the top. The top had air. The rest were suffocated by silicone. Is that he reason?

It can take a few days until all of the lye ions have found their oily partners to no longer be zappy. Longer in very slow moving/not-so-well emulsified batches. YMMV.

On the top you have two effects: first, oil is less dense than lye/soap, so it might be that the (properly emulsified!) lye slightly sediments to the bottom, leaving the top with slightly more oil than the bulk, and saponification is finished quicker – but this gradient usually levels out after a few days (probably capillary forces?).
Secondly, air contains carbon dioxide, that combines with lye to sodium carbonate, that is still alkaline but by far not as aggressive as hydroxide, and can tame down zap test, even if the free surface seems shiny and no soda ash is visible as a whitish crust/snow/rime on top of the soap.

 

[kdm]

<insert your own adjective here>

Oh, yeah. I'm only spotting this now. Probably because you got it right. How odd. I'm really very good at words.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I found that very, umm, “diplomatic” . It's refreshing to watch the imagination of strangers strained at times .

 

[KiwiMoose]

I used to live in the UK, and we had a separate laundry room too! Then we moved and had to put up with the washing machine in the kitchen again. Funny enough, we moved it to another (renovated) part of the kitchen, and put a dishwasher in its old place.
Hey - your soap looks great! Definitely get some CO ( that link from tesco had some, but you can get it cheaper from a soap supplier).
P.S. West Ham til I die.

 

[kdm]

Hey - your soap looks great! Definitely get some CO ( that link from tesco had some, but you can get it cheaper from a soap supplier).

How about now?

P.S. West Ham til I die.

Wolves aye we. (I'm not a football fan, but 100% of matches I've ever been at were the Mighty, Mighty Wolves.)

 

[liqueee]

I hope you also have a fire extinguisher ❤

Thank you for the reminder. It is past time for me to renew mine. I have had it for 15 years.