Back from the Dead

[DWinMadison]

Hello all...sorry to have dropped off the planet for so long...Life happened. Anyway, I'm glad to be back, and I'm looking forward to hearing about and seeing what you guys have been doing in the soaping world. I also have a unique challenge for which I could use some advice.

I'm assisting a missions team from a church in Alabama. They are traveling to Thailand to work with a family of full-time missionaries serving remote villages. Their plan is to provide soap to indigenous populations and also teach them soap making skills. These are remote villages with basic sanitation challenges as well as limited access to stores. It sounds like the Thai government is willing to provide some of the raw materials.

Here's my challenge: One of the ongoing challenges they have in these poor, tropical villages is lice. The missionaries emailed and asked if there is a soap that can be used to effectively combat lice. It's a real head-scratcher <ba dum, chuck> I did some research and there is some discussion online about neem oil (I presume as a base oil) as well as citronella and tea tree EOs. Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions. Any experience with treating lice with natural soap?

 

[LunaSkye]

I never had an experience with lice, but I think you could also use lavender to combat lice as well. I just hope it's not an luxury.

 

[lsg]

Neem seed oil in your shampoo and soap should help. The Reference Guide for essential oils states that citronella, pine, eucalyptus, geranium, lavender, lemon and rosemary essential oils are all effective against lice.

 

[DWinMadison]

Neem seed oil in your shampoo and soap should help. The Reference Guide for essential oils states that citronella, pine, eucalyptus, geranium, lavender, lemon and rosemary essential oils are all effective against lice.

Excellent. Any suggestions for the percent of total oils to use neem seed? Is it an EO or a base oil?

 

[houseofwool]

I have no suggestions about the soap, but am glad to see you back.

 

[lenarenee]

I have huge doubts about neem working on lice.

I have no experience with neem, but tons of experience with lice. At the over-crowded school here in s. California, lice is a year round event (school built for 300 students now has 1000)

We dealt with lice for an entire year. There is NOTHING available in the US (didn't go prescription route since dd was only 5 at the time) that kills lice.

We had professionals dealing with the situation. (Yes, people can make a living dealing with lice) The only things that work: picking eggs and lice out of the hair, and time. Lots and lots of time. Hair was picked nightly, professionally picked weekly...with the goal of eventually getting all of the unhatched eggs...and finding and removing the freshly hatched generation before they mature enough to lay more eggs.

Again...there were no store bought products that were any benefit in killing lice.

There are products filled with essential oils like lavender, tea tree, mint,...etc...that were supposed to help prevent lice from wanting to attach to your hair. We used them and hoped they worked. There's also a spray lice deterrent filled with essential oils. No idea if they helped, but they were safe to use.

Never saw a neem product advertised for lice; nor had a professional recommend one.

The professionals did tell us these things: clean heads are more attractive to lice than dirty ones, people who use product like mousse and hair spray are much less attractive to lice.

This is your best friend, not your typical nit comb. : http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HIBPV8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


Used to use it twice a week as a preventive....to catch anything before it lays eggs. Trust me....this is one thing that is SO worth preventing.

Apply conditioner to wet hair...comb through small sections at a time. Hair conditioner stuns lice and nits for about 20 minutes...they won't move and you'll get them easier. Can also help remove a few eggs. Problem with eggs is...they are glued onto the hair strand.

It took months to get this under control with dd; and a full year before we were sure she was completely clear. We are now extremely grateful she attends the school she does now and not just because of the curriculum, proper recess time and supportive atmosphere, but it will never be overcrowded. Haven't had a problem since.

 

[DWinMadison]

I have no suggestions about the soap, but am glad to see you back.

Very sweet. Thank you.

 

[snappyllama]

When my daughter was in kindergarten, every kid got them except mine. The lice would go around from one kid to another -building up resistance to OTC treatments and eventually prescription ones.

I was freaking out about them especially since my daughter had very long hair.
I braided her hair everyday and coated it with hair gel and hairspray - practically shellacking it. I figured nothing was going to get through.

I think homemade hairspray is just simple syrup and rubbing alcohol... I'm not sure if that would be enough to keep the buggers away.

 

[lsg]

I would not use over 15% neem seed oil as a base oil for cp soap and shampoo. A few drops in a commercial shampoo seems to do the trick also. I use neem seed oil dog shampoo and it works for fleas, ticks and other pests. Here are some articles on neem. I suggest you read through them and if you decide it isn't for you then you can buy a commercial product.

http://www.discoverneem.com/making-neem-soap.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/143541-neem-oil-head-lice/

http://www.anthromed.org/Article.aspx?artpk=21

http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupplementguide/a/Neem-Oil.htm

Here is a commercial product called Clear Lice:

http://www.clearlice.com/ingredients.html

 

[lenarenee]

snappyllama, that's right! I forgot - the people who treated us also mentioned keeping long hair in braids or ponytails. I'm so glad it worked for your daughter - saved her (and you!) many frustrated tears.

lsg, if you read my post again, you will see that I said I had huge doubts that neem will kill lice. I did not say it would not work.

These are the reasons I have doubts (and this is info from several lice professionals and 3 different medical sources. Like I said, we dealt with this for a year. Daily. 365 days.)

1) even the new prescription medicine for lice treatment doesn't work well. Many families here have tried it. It's the physical removal of eggs, nits, and lice that has the best success.

2) Those little buggers have survived the "freezer" treatment, and the bagging treatment. Items frozen or bagged in plastic for 2 - 4 weeks. .

3) Rid and other products have no affect on many lice...most have become immune to it. As they have other bug killing chemicals.

4) We have a large Mexican population here, and they use many home remedies, including neem. Very mixed results - one person said it helped reduce the number of adults, but neem did not stop the infestation. It was...the physical removal of eggs and lice that worked.

5) At the risk of being ostracized on the forum, I believe neem needs a lot more investigation before people start throwing it into products for use by unsuspecting people. Neem is not without its risks. There are a couple of pediatricians in the San Diego area who suspect neem as the cause of seizures in young children. Our housekeeper's little cousin was one of the kids sent to the ER. Also, a colleague of my veterinarian had an autopsy done on a formerly healthy dog, the conclusion was neem poisoning from homemade flea treatment.

Do not bother to counter my opinions with "well they must have used it wrong" or "obviously they didn't use a safe amount". Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. The problem is...no one really knows.

I will not risk using neem on my precious girl, or my pets. There are simply better alternatives.

Neem soap is not a recognized lice treatment in our country. As for the population the missionaries will be serving....they are vulnerable; poverty, lack of medical care, and no/little resources to help them educate themselves to see if neem is something they want to use on their bodies. Think of how many populations view missionaries...they come from a "better" and "modern" place, so they must know what they're doing, right? The missionaries hand them neem soap and say "here is the answer to your lice problem". The very idea is offensive. These people deserve respect. They deserve to be informed instead of blindly led.

We will not be using neem on our precious girl, or pets. You are free to make that determination in you own household, and I respect that. But it's not right make that choice for others.

The most effective, safe and responsible way to help them deal with lice, is to supply them with the special combs and instructions on how to use them. No iffy chemicals needed.

If the op is interested, I'd be happy to purchase a couple to donate to them.

 

[lsg]

I understand your concern, but no one here is trying to make decisions for someone else except you. I posted links to information and gave anyone who reads it the option to ignore the post and to buy a commercial product. The OP asked about neem oil and I gave my opinion. That does not mean it is the only way to go. If anyone has a concern about using neem seed oil, then they should refrain from using it. I am not advocating the use of it, just stating my experience and offering more information. To infer anything else is offensive to say the least.

 

[allane]

The best EO that treats lice is Lippia multiflora oil. Even just grinding the leaves and using the diluted juice from the leaves work.

 

[DWinMadison]

Even with the best treatment, I think removal of nits is important to prevent reinfestation.

 

[Jstar]

I'm going to agree with the removal of live lice and nits..that's a given. I too have dealt with lice on 3 of my girls who all had long hair, and I did so on a yearly basis..the only time they didn't have lice was during the summer months they weren't in public school...my son never got them because of his short hair...

However, I will also agree to read up on the neem seed oil and the Lippia multiflora oil Allane mentioned, as Im looking for natural products for my grand children. I have just found out they have had lice for quite awhile and my daughter is just worn out from the picking, and constant cleaning and the toxic chemicals are no longer working.

I KNOW there is 'something' natural out there that will kill and prevent these evil little pests..just takes some time to find it..and I think most people are so accustomed to trusting the commercial products till it just seems easier to use those...people know its toxic, but they trust the commercial industry {'surely they wouldn't put something out that would harm our kids right?'}...pffftttt....sorry..I prefer the natural stuff God put on the planet before I'd trust big pharma....

Anyway, Im rambling....sorry

Im also going to try the hairspray..never even thought of that.

Thanks for the links lsg and the extra info allane

 

[Jstar]

Hm...interesting

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10967487
​

 

[lenarenee]

Dear forum members,

I wish to apologize for this comment"

Do not bother to counter my opinions with "well they must have used it wrong" or "obviously they didn't use a safe amount". Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. The problem is...no one really knows.

As I reread it, I think it sounds high-handed and rude. It was not meant to; it's a very badly worded way of saying: I recognize that other things could have been a factor in the death and seizure that the Dr.s blame the application of a neem product for, so please don't bring it up.

I also want to apologize to DWinMadison for participating in the hijacking of his thread. I wish I had welcomed you back to the forum, but because I don't remember ever seeing you on the forum, I didn't. I'm glad that you are able to return to the forum.

Also, I fear I may have offended you because of my comments about missionaries. Please...I wasn't talking about your friends or even missionaries in general. (Again, a badly worded phrase) If I could have a do-over, I would explain that because of the volunteer I do with the Lost Boys of Sudan, I understand first hand the impact a different culture and world view can have on people trying to live in a foreign land. People on this forum can educate themselves and choose for themselves what products to use or not...most importantly...they know to do so. My concern is that the people the missionaries meet would not. There are still many cultures in the world that think Americans have it all....and don't question them, blindly copy us and take it as "gospel". I see this even with immigrants that have been here for 10 years.

I hope I have explained this well.

I also hope to have a chance in the future to welcome you properly.

 

[goji_fries]

When my daughter was in kindergarten, every kid got them except mine. The lice would go around from one kid to another -building up resistance to OTC treatments and eventually prescription ones.

I was freaking out about them especially since my daughter had very long hair.
I braided her hair everyday and coated it with hair gel and hairspray - practically shellacking it. I figured nothing was going to get through.

I think homemade hairspray is just simple syrup and rubbing alcohol... I'm not sure if that would be enough to keep the buggers away.

Like a varnish dip for electric motors? LOL

 

[snappyllama]

Like a varnish dip for electric motors? LOL

Hehe. More crunchy. Think of 80's mall rat girls' bangs.

 

[goji_fries]

Hehe. More crunchy. Think of 80's mall rat girls' bangs.

LOL @ crunchiness. Cubic zirconium super strength ::: Like ratted up gangster bangs? 8)

 

[DWinMadison]

Lenarenee, thanks for your apology and welcome back. No worries. You will find I have pretty thick skin, plus I thought your comments/cautions were appropriate. I'd never give ANYONE a soap recipe that I haven't first tried on myself. The purpose of the project is to teach basic soap making to villages that don't have access to stores. The missionary asked me if there was anything I could offer to help with lice, sort of as an extra benefit. I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want everyone e's feedback. Thanks and have a blessed night.