Ash - do you know the secret?

[Deda]

IrishLass, I wonder too. Do have the notes from the ashy batch? Can you tell us the temperature of the oils and lye when mixed?

SurfGurl, my oils are always cool (RT - around 65 degrees, higher in the summer, lower at night, but you get it). If I'm planning to gel the soap then I use smoking hot lye, as soon as it's clear, if I want no gel I cool my lye in refrigerator, I'm guessing it's around 40 degrees.

 

[jcandleattic]

Hey, those of you who get no ash - how much water do you use (i.e. what is your lye concentration?)

Oh, and how long do you wait to unmold? And if you wrap/insulate, do you peek at your insulated/wrapped soaps before unmolding?

Cheers!

Anywhere from a deep water discount to full water. It just depends on the recipe I'm working on. That's really never been a factor for me with the ash...

 

[MikeInPdx]

Hey, those of you who get no ash - how much water do you use (i.e. what is your lye concentration?)

Oh, and how long do you wait to unmold? And if you wrap/insulate, do you peek at your insulated/wrapped soaps before unmolding?

Cheers!

Anywhere from a deep water discount to full water. It just depends on the recipe I'm working on. That's really never been a factor for me with the ash...

Same here....I've done everything from full water to 40% lye.

 

[TheGardener]

The only time I get ash is when I don't cover with saran wrap. I use the same basic recipe and always gel. I have a log mold with a lid and when I first got it, I didn't put the plastic wrap on and I didn't wrap the soap in blankets. I got major ash problems. Then, I tried putting the lid on and wrapping in blankets. I got less ash and less condensation. Now, I put plastic wrap, lid and blankets and all is well. No ash.

 

[carebear]

I sometimes get ash - not almost/always, not never/rarely. Some EOs/FOs seem to contribute to it (lavender EO, cranberry-citrus FO) and other times it's just happenstance. I always gel, use between 28 % 40% lye concentrations, log & slab, bottled water, sometimes peek, always insulate (my house is 50 degrees at night and 55 during the day when I'm at work). saran might work (I rarely do it) or misting with alcohol - but don't do that if you have a clay swirl going or it gets odd.

I've had soaps that look fine when they came out of the mold and were cut develop ash just sitting (rare, but it happens)

 

[IrishLass]

IrishLass, I wonder too. Do have the notes from the ashy batch? Can you tell us the temperature of the oils and lye when mixed?

Both my oils and my lye were about 95 degreesF, or barely warm to the touch.

I poured the batch at medium trace into my wooden TOG mold and let it sit on my counter for 1/2 hour uncovered while I cleaned up. Then I put it right into the fridge after that, still uncovered. Also- it wasn't hot at all when I put it in the fridge, just barely warm.

Thirteen hours later I unmolded it and cut it. It had not gelled and it looked fantastic. Nothing was weird or unusual. It was perfect in color and scent and I was so happy with it. I carefully stamped it and put it on my curing rack.

It was while it was on my curing rack that it developed ash over a period of a week or more. Little did I know how thick the ash was until I tried to remove it at 6 weeks! Yikes! Usually if I get ash, it's so thin that it comes right off in one shallow swipe with my peeler, or else a very light sanding under a trickle of water with one of those green kitchen scrubby things made my 3-M, but not so this batch!

It was a Castile-type soap with 72% OO, with the rest being made up of CO and tallow, and it was superfatted at 6% with a 33% lye solution. It had no milk of any kind- just distilled water as the liquid. I used Ginger Milk FO from MMS @ .9 oz ppo for the scent, and the soap had silk, a little kaolin clay (1/2 tsp ppo), and the barest hint of oxide and mica colorants to make it a light peachy color.

I don't know, maybe I unmolded and cut it too soon? I wonder about that because the ash was everywhere on my soap, not just the tops like it usually is if I get any ash at all, but on all 6 sides. I've never, ever had that happen before or since.

IrishLass

 

[IrishLass]

IrishLass? With that nasty ash batch (say that five times fast did you )

IRishLass

 

[surf girl]

Some EOs/FOs seem to contribute to it (lavender EO, cranberry-citrus FO) and other times it's just happenstance.

carebear, have you tried the same recipe with and without those EOs/FOs, and gotten no ash (whereas you do when you use them)?

Thanks!

 

[carebear]

yep

 

[pinkduchon]

I always seem to get ash, unless I cover with freezer paper. I CP around 100 -110 degrees and use different oils, EOs and FOs in each batch. So I bought a bevel and sheer it off!

 

[NewbieSoaper]

Argh, ash!! I've been soaping with PVC pipe and have gotten ash on the top - which wasn't so bad. I wrap the pipe with a towel (my house runs cold in the winter) and the top. Ash on top. Then I tried capping the pipe with plastic wrap and a rubberband. Ash was still there, but only a ring around the top. Today i made a batch of cocoa butter soap, and put it in the fridge. I figured I'd try that because in the summer it's hot and humid and I thought the fridge would be a good place for it then so I'd try it now. I froze it to unmold and it popped out and it looked great! (my first hand at swirl but ended up being more of a marble) But hours after cutting, there is ash forming in the little bubbles! I've never had ash form after cutting till now!! So I put the de-humidifer in front of the batch - we'll see if that keeps more ash from forming (I sure do hope so!!) I was thinking of putting it in the fridge again, but I noticed moisture on the containers in there and if moisture causes it, the fridge might not be the best place.

 

[surf girl]

Updated tally:

1. (jcandleattic) Can avoid ash by using filtered or distilled water and covering the soap. Gel/no gel doesn't matter; insulated or not doesn't matter.

2. (Deda & Mike) Can avoid ash by soaping cold (RT) and putting the soap in the fridge. These soaps don't gel.

3. (Deda & Mike) Can avoid ash in gelled soaps by letting them cool slowly, either by insulating with blankets or allowing them to cool in the turned-off oven.

4. (Maria) Can avoid ash by including beeswax in CP recipes.

5. (Tahara, TheGardener, pinkduchon) Can avoid ash by covering the exposed soap with waxed paper or saran or freezer paper.



Theories as to ash formation:

1. (jcandleattic) Type of water (will get ash if soft tap water) and (jcandleattic, Tahara, TheGardener, pinkduchon) air contact with the soap (will get ash if not wrapped/covered with saran, waxed paper, or freezer paper).

2. (Deda) Water condensation on the saponifying soap (will get ash if soap is not put in fridge in summer and condensation forms on it).

3. (tangled_panda) Honey or overheating may contribute to ash (has not gotten ash on wrapped/unwrapped batches except for one that had honey).

4. (carebear) Certain EOs/FOs may contribute to ash (has gotten ash with lavender EO, cranberry-citrus FO but not in same recipe without these EO/FO).

5. (IrishLass) Cutting too early may contribute to ash (got ash on an ungelled, refrigerated batch cut at 13 hours, on all 6 sides).

Things that, across the board, do NOT contribute to ash:

1. Lye concentration.

2. Soaping temp.

So, thus far, it would appear that to have the best chance at avoiding ash, one should use distilled/filtered water, insulate the mold or refrigerate it, and cover exposed soap with saran, waxed paper or freezer paper. Avoid cutting before, oh, maybe 24 hours? And possibly think about avoiding beeswax, lavender EO, and cranberry-citrus EO.

Anyone who gets ash frequently want to give it a go and see what happens? I'll fool around with those things next time I make a non-rebatchy batch.

 

[carebear]

While I do think certain fragrance materials contribute to ash they are clearly not the only culprit even in my shop. I can get ash on soaps that I wouldn't expect it on.

I know there is a scientific explanation but I haven't been able to put my finger on it. Probably a combination of things (water, air flow, soaping temps, room temperature, gel, fragrance material, oils). We've been working on this over at the Dish for a while, but haven't gotten it nailed down.

 

[surf girl]

It would kind of help, wouldn't it, if we knew what ash actually is, chemically speaking? No one seems to have put their finger on that yet.