Apple Cider Vinegar Soap
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"...Can someone explain in "soaping for Dummies" terms why [a soaper] made her soap without all the calculations and it turned out as beautiful as any soap I've ever seen?..."
I do not want to remotely imply I am picking on anyone in particular, so I deleted the soaper's name. I'm speaking in general here.
If a soaper wants to add vinegar or other acid to soap without adding the extra lye that will be consumed by the acid, then the soaper is accepting the fact that this is going to add some unknown amount of superfat to the recipe. People who do this may end up with a soap that looks nice and functions okay, but they may just as easily end up with a soap with problems.
If you read SMF for any length of time, you'll see many threads with a common theme -- the poster's soap isn't hardening up, has separated, doesn't lather well, "melts" quickly in the shower, etc. Sometimes this is due to a poor recipe or the soaper's inexperience, but often the trouble comes from casually using additives like acids without taking the time to understand and deal with the consequences.
As Hazel said, the vinegar she added to her soap increased her superfat by 7-8%. That amount of "hidden" superfat is equal to the amount of superfat many soapers want in their soap. So if you start with a recipe at 8% superfat and add acid without extra lye, you'd be doubling the superfat. That's a lot of fat to build into a soap -- it's a lather killer at the very least.
The bottom line for me is that a soap may look fine and that's always nice ... but the soap needs to function properly to be a real winner. If I can easily figure out how much lye will be consumed by adding an acid to my soap, I'm going to add that extra lye, because then I have more control of the outcome and my soap is more likely to be consistent from batch to batch and to perform the way I expect it to.
But, as always, everyone's mileage varies on this issue....
I do not want to remotely imply I am picking on anyone in particular, so I deleted the soaper's name. I'm speaking in general here.
If a soaper wants to add vinegar or other acid to soap without adding the extra lye that will be consumed by the acid, then the soaper is accepting the fact that this is going to add some unknown amount of superfat to the recipe. People who do this may end up with a soap that looks nice and functions okay, but they may just as easily end up with a soap with problems.
If you read SMF for any length of time, you'll see many threads with a common theme -- the poster's soap isn't hardening up, has separated, doesn't lather well, "melts" quickly in the shower, etc. Sometimes this is due to a poor recipe or the soaper's inexperience, but often the trouble comes from casually using additives like acids without taking the time to understand and deal with the consequences.
As Hazel said, the vinegar she added to her soap increased her superfat by 7-8%. That amount of "hidden" superfat is equal to the amount of superfat many soapers want in their soap. So if you start with a recipe at 8% superfat and add acid without extra lye, you'd be doubling the superfat. That's a lot of fat to build into a soap -- it's a lather killer at the very least.
The bottom line for me is that a soap may look fine and that's always nice ... but the soap needs to function properly to be a real winner. If I can easily figure out how much lye will be consumed by adding an acid to my soap, I'm going to add that extra lye, because then I have more control of the outcome and my soap is more likely to be consistent from batch to batch and to perform the way I expect it to.
But, as always, everyone's mileage varies on this issue....
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Thank you DeeAnna. I did in fact do the math. My simple mind couldn't wrap around that whole (using the very thing I use to defuse the lye)at all. Thankfully I used Hazel's wise ( hope she reads this) 
counsel.
So what other additives that would add acid?
Ok so now the funny part when I first read your post I thought you were going to say " I don't want to remotely imply" that you are a Dummy!
counsel. So what other additives that would add acid?
Ok so now the funny part when I first read your post I thought you were going to say " I don't want to remotely imply" that you are a Dummy!
@ Pepsi Girl -
Gorgeous! I'm so envious of your beautiful swirls. The soap makes me think of red marble. Thanks for sharing! :grin: Did you add extra lye to get a specific SF?
Also, HippieGirl64 might have calculated the lye to compensate for the vinegar. I didn't think to ask her how she did it.
Gorgeous! I'm so envious of your beautiful swirls. The soap makes me think of red marble. Thanks for sharing! :grin: Did you add extra lye to get a specific SF?
Also, HippieGirl64 might have calculated the lye to compensate for the vinegar. I didn't think to ask her how she did it.
@ Hazel,
Thanks! Yes, it does make a difference, especially in my shampoo bar. Compared to my shampoo bar made with 100% water, I like how the ACV shampoo bar feels on my scalp and hair. It's a bit easier to manage, my scalp feels squeaky clean and my hair feels much softer & fuller.
Thanks! Yes, it does make a difference, especially in my shampoo bar. Compared to my shampoo bar made with 100% water, I like how the ACV shampoo bar feels on my scalp and hair. It's a bit easier to manage, my scalp feels squeaky clean and my hair feels much softer & fuller.
Thanks for replying. Now we know it does make a difference in shampoo bars. It's going to be really hard to wait another 3 weeks before I can test a bar.
Yes, Ma'am I did!
Thanks, I'm glad you think their pretty because I was thinking they looked a little like Spam!:think:
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"...So what other additives that would add acid?..."
I've seen people talking about using vinegar (acetic acid), ascorbic acid, lactic acid, and citric acid. I'd say vinegar and citric are the most common acids added to soap, with ascorbic acid a distant third. Lactic acid would usually come from adding yogurt and other fermented milk products.
"...Ok so now the funny part when I first read your post I thought you were going to say " I don't want to remotely imply" that you are a Dummy!..."
That IS pretty funny! I wasn't really thinking that at all, just so's you know -- I thought your question was a good one.
I've seen people talking about using vinegar (acetic acid), ascorbic acid, lactic acid, and citric acid. I'd say vinegar and citric are the most common acids added to soap, with ascorbic acid a distant third. Lactic acid would usually come from adding yogurt and other fermented milk products.
"...Ok so now the funny part when I first read your post I thought you were going to say " I don't want to remotely imply" that you are a Dummy!..."
That IS pretty funny!
I wasn't really thinking that at all, just so's you know -- I thought your question was a good one.
Yes, but I love Spam. I eat it. Lovely Spam! Wonderful Spam!
Bloody Vikings.
Image from https://drawception.com/viewgame/Q1KDkGX8Xk/monty-pythons-spam-sketch/
Fantastic! I look forward to seeing it. :grin:
i did my 1st acv shampoo bar!
will share pics once it is cut (it is sleeping soundly in the mold as we speak)
That sounds wonderful! I cannot wait
!
seven
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okay, here it is freshly out of the mold. it looks pretty blah, but i am glad that it turned into soap, as it is my 1st time messing with acv in soap i've also added a bit of cocamydopropyl betaine as a mild surfactant (been meaning to add some panthenol too, but alas i forgot!). i dunno why, but my hair seems to need just a tiny bit of surfactant, otherwise it's dull as hell. am going to try a sliver today!
i've also added a bit of cocamydopropyl betaine as a mild surfactant (been meaning to add some panthenol too, but alas i forgot!). i dunno why, but my hair seems to need just a tiny bit of surfactant, otherwise it's dull as hell. am going to try a sliver today!
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I think your soap looks great! I didn't know you were using cocamydopropyl betaine in soap. Atihcnoc asked about using it not too long ago. I actually told her she didn't need it in her soap.
seven
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thanks lsg i was a bit nervous at first, as it was my 1st time using acv and coco betaine in cp soap. i've tried the shampoo bar, it was okay. i think my hair still needs a further acv rinse/conditioner. that said, tried mp soap today to wash my hair, and loved it. totally different topic, but yeah, my hair is silky soft and easy to brush once it dries.
i was a bit nervous at first, as it was my 1st time using acv and coco betaine in cp soap. i've tried the shampoo bar, it was okay. i think my hair still needs a further acv rinse/conditioner. that said, tried mp soap today to wash my hair, and loved it. totally different topic, but yeah, my hair is silky soft and easy to brush once it dries.girlishcharm2004
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okay, here it is freshly out of the mold. it looks pretty blah, but i am glad that it turned into soap, as it is my 1st time messing with acv in soap
Looks great!!! Hmm...Interesting...I've never added any surfactant in my soap. I should try it... How much should I add?
seven
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i really have no idea how much is the right percentage. i think i did around 1/3 from total liquid.
I also tried cider vinegar in this batch..buttermilk and a little less than half vinegar..it reached trace immediately when i added lye solution to fats,and got very thick to pour..other than this,everything was same as batches without vinegar..and fast trace might be due to my recipe. it happened earlier also..i will try in other recipes as well..i have one question- has anyone tried this with liquid soap?will it be helpful in hair wash?
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