Any advice?
- Thread starter sliginion
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Your use of the words "lye water" doesn't make sense. Do you mean 4 ounces of lye crystals dissolved in 12 oz of goats milk?
Go to http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp
Enter in the total amount of oils - 24 oz, leave the other values the same except for the oils list. Add in Lard - 16 oz, Coconut 76 deg - 8 Oz
Hit calculate, then hit view or print recipe.
You get something like the image below. Do you see where it calculates your amount of Lye for you? See how it tells you that you want 3.54 oz lye for a 5% superfat? You definately want at least a 5% superfat on that much coconut oil. Your recipe has too much lye. Where did you get that amount?
It doesn't make any sense to make a lye heavy, skin stripping soap like this with so much coconut oil, and then add goats milk.
It also shows you how much liquid to use, in this case 9.12 Oz water (or could use goats milk, but milk really is tricky, try it and see). You have too much liquid in your recipe? Why?
You need to use a lye calculator like this on every single recipe you even think about using. Then pay attention to what the soap might be like by looking at the qualities on the left. Then go read the first few pages of the beginners forum to get an idea of what might make a good soap.
Go to http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp
Enter in the total amount of oils - 24 oz, leave the other values the same except for the oils list. Add in Lard - 16 oz, Coconut 76 deg - 8 Oz
Hit calculate, then hit view or print recipe.
You get something like the image below. Do you see where it calculates your amount of Lye for you? See how it tells you that you want 3.54 oz lye for a 5% superfat? You definately want at least a 5% superfat on that much coconut oil. Your recipe has too much lye. Where did you get that amount?
It doesn't make any sense to make a lye heavy, skin stripping soap like this with so much coconut oil, and then add goats milk.
It also shows you how much liquid to use, in this case 9.12 Oz water (or could use goats milk, but milk really is tricky, try it and see). You have too much liquid in your recipe? Why?
You need to use a lye calculator like this on every single recipe you even think about using. Then pay attention to what the soap might be like by looking at the qualities on the left. Then go read the first few pages of the beginners forum to get an idea of what might make a good soap.
Now I know theres alot of people that im jus goofing around with lye but im really trying to get good at doing this... these soaps r only for trial and error...
And the soap calculator doesnt work for me lol.
I use 9 oz of oil to 1 oz of lye. On my last batch of goats milk im on day two of curing and it turned out really well. No burning, irritation, or anything odd. Ive tested samples and all is well. Anyone got a well tested recipe working.with goats milk, coconut oil and lard?
And the soap calculator doesnt work for me lol.
I use 9 oz of oil to 1 oz of lye. On my last batch of goats milk im on day two of curing and it turned out really well. No burning, irritation, or anything odd. Ive tested samples and all is well. Anyone got a well tested recipe working.with goats milk, coconut oil and lard?
What do you mean the lye calculator doesn't work for you? You need to use one, it's not optional. You could seriously injure yourself or someone else.
TEG posted a perfectly good recipe for you in your other post.
I don't mean to come off as rude but you are being seriously irresponsible if not doing the calculations correctly. Nor is it likely you'll get a good batch of soap just doing it all willy nilly.
Folks here are more than helpful with the learing process, however, if you choose to be irresponsible then you may find help not so forthcoming.
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A good and safe soap rarely happens by accident.
There is no "universal" recipe for making good soap because (such as 9 oz of oil + 1 oz lye= good soap). That's because each oil has it's own saponification rate - different oils take a different amount of lye to saponify it.
It's also important to measure by weight, instead of measuring by volume. Do you have a good scale?
We can teach you how to use and understand a lye calculator. Also, like shunt said, the recipe given to you by the Gentlemen is a great recipe.
There is no "universal" recipe for making good soap because (such as 9 oz of oil + 1 oz lye= good soap). That's because each oil has it's own saponification rate - different oils take a different amount of lye to saponify it.
It's also important to measure by weight, instead of measuring by volume. Do you have a good scale?
We can teach you how to use and understand a lye calculator. Also, like shunt said, the recipe given to you by the Gentlemen is a great recipe.
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9oz of oils and 1 oz of lye plus the fact you used goat's milk? I'd like to see that soap in about a year's time because unless otherwise noted, it's begging for DOS since to superfat is going to be at least 8%.
And what do you mean a lye calculator doesn't work for you? You make them work for you. Soapee.com is the EASIEST one to use. If you can't make that one work for your soaping, you're just being lazy and pretentious.
And what do you mean a lye calculator doesn't work for you? You make them work for you. Soapee.com is the EASIEST one to use. If you can't make that one work for your soaping, you're just being lazy and pretentious.
OP-You need to either decide to use safe practices on making soap, or not post here expecting support for choosing to use unsafe practices. We are simply not going to approve of your throwing lye and oils together willy-nilly and expecting soap. Not to mention that new people are reading this who know no better. That is rather frightening. You need to choose to either use a lye calculator or stop expecting soap.
(To everyone else) I think this person is a troll. I think they are posting this simply to get the reaction they are receiving. I really am worried that people who have never made soap are going to emulate this person.
(To everyone else) I think this person is a troll. I think they are posting this simply to get the reaction they are receiving. I really am worried that people who have never made soap are going to emulate this person.
If you are using a self-made lye solution, you won't get much help from many of us as we don't know about using it. We use bought lye in solid form and make a solution.
When using a self-made lye, people would use a couple of methods which would not always result in good soap. I would google "making soap with ash water" or some such. That should help
When using a self-made lye, people would use a couple of methods which would not always result in good soap. I would google "making soap with ash water" or some such. That should help
And yet I am condemned for trying to learn from my mistakes. Like I said I will use this soap calculator. I wasnt looking for an argument or being condemned, it was only for conversation and learning but sense this seems to b more of a problem than a friendly conversation ill stop posting
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I hope to convince you to skip the goat's milk for the first couple of batches of soap you make. Why? Because milk replaces some of the water used for the lye solution, but goat's milk turns orange, can burn, and will definitely stink. People have a couple of different ways to deal with that, but it complicates the process a lot for someone who is a beginner. It would benefit you to make a couple of happy successful batches without it first.
By the way, if you don't have store bought lye, you can often get it at hardware stores.
By the way, if you don't have store bought lye, you can often get it at hardware stores.
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Imagine if you said the same thing in a chemistry lab. There are some mistakes with lye you simply do not want to make.
You won't get any sympathy here for flinging stuff about with no research.
You aren't a victim here, people tried to help and you ignored or discarded some very good advice - which is where the troll suspicion is starting. If you aren't ready to go do some research, and start listening to sense, soap making probably isn't a good idea for you.
You won't get any sympathy here for flinging stuff about with no research.
You aren't a victim here, people tried to help and you ignored or discarded some very good advice - which is where the troll suspicion is starting. If you aren't ready to go do some research, and start listening to sense, soap making probably isn't a good idea for you.
It's not the problem of learning from your mistakes. It's the fact that you are not following others input. Perhaps if you introduced yourself in the introduction forum and tell us a litter about yourself it may help.
We don't understand why you would do somthing so risky when there is absoutely no reason when there are tools to help you do it correctly. I guess if you have the money to make a bunch of wasted and unsafe product continue on.
However, you won't get any help here as we all use the calculators so that we have successful batches of soap. We don't want our hide ripped off by unsafe soap.
Also, please read the forum rules, leaving posts are not allowed.
We welcome you to learn here but please do so safely. As stated, we get many beginners here and we would hate to have someone read your posts thinking this is okay to do. We certainly do not support it.
We welcome you to the forum and hope you take some of the advice given to you.
Safety is no laughing/joking matter.
Dorymae
Well-Known Member
I am sure that since you are just beginning the soap making process you must feel you are being ganged up on. Please set that feeling aside for a moment. The reason people are getting upset is because of the danger a lye heavy soap can cause. It is important, excess lye in soap could potentially blind you if it got into your eyes and if there was enough lye remaining in the soap.
The main thing you need to understand is that each oil you use needs a specific amount of lye to make it soap. That amount we refer to as SAP value. You can read about how you can use SAP value by hand figure the amount of lye needed here: http://www.soap-making-resource.com/saponification-table.html. This can get very confusing when using many oils, which is why we use a lye calculator. ( or soap calculator) Yes it can be figured out by hand, and it is worth knowing how BUT it is always a good practice to run your recipe through a calculator to be sure you didn't make a mistake. This will give you the amount of lye needed at what we call 0 (zero) super fat.
Which brings us to the second thing you need to know. A soap with no superfat is almost always very drying to the skin because the soap strips all the oils from your skin. Superfatting is one way we make soap not drying. It is the process of adding additional oil to the soap which will not be turned to soap. The other way is called lye discounting, which is reducing the lye amount so that there will be oil left that will not turn to soap. Both of these values are expressed as a percentage, but they are not the same because reducing the lye by 5 percent or adding an extra 5 percent of oil will result in different amounts of oil being left over because the SAP values differ and you can not control which oil will not turn to soap in cold process soap making.
It is very important to understand these things before you start. I hope this information will help you.
The main thing you need to understand is that each oil you use needs a specific amount of lye to make it soap. That amount we refer to as SAP value. You can read about how you can use SAP value by hand figure the amount of lye needed here: http://www.soap-making-resource.com/saponification-table.html. This can get very confusing when using many oils, which is why we use a lye calculator. ( or soap calculator) Yes it can be figured out by hand, and it is worth knowing how BUT it is always a good practice to run your recipe through a calculator to be sure you didn't make a mistake. This will give you the amount of lye needed at what we call 0 (zero) super fat.
Which brings us to the second thing you need to know. A soap with no superfat is almost always very drying to the skin because the soap strips all the oils from your skin. Superfatting is one way we make soap not drying. It is the process of adding additional oil to the soap which will not be turned to soap. The other way is called lye discounting, which is reducing the lye amount so that there will be oil left that will not turn to soap. Both of these values are expressed as a percentage, but they are not the same because reducing the lye by 5 percent or adding an extra 5 percent of oil will result in different amounts of oil being left over because the SAP values differ and you can not control which oil will not turn to soap in cold process soap making.
It is very important to understand these things before you start. I hope this information will help you.
Slinginion- you came onto our forum telling us you were failing at making soap, and asked if we could help you make good soap. Not knowing for sure whether or not your question was sincere or if you are a troll, we have all (in good faith) joined in to help you, which is a testament to the wonderful members we have here. Truly- we are not trying to be jerks- we're just good soapmaking folk speaking to you from our experience. Many of us have been making good, successful soap for several years, and all that we are trying to do is steer you (and any other newbies who might be reading) clear of dangerous pitfalls and bad soap-making practices. If you are truly sincere and not a troll (my sincerest apologies if you are not a troll), once you have begun to understand more of the chemistry and mechanics behind soap-making and how it all works, I am confident that you will look back on this thread and see that that's all we were trying to do, and you may even give yourself a V-8 slap to the forehead over it.
The batches you have made so far might indeed be called soap, but there's a huge difference between soap and good soap. I think I can pretty much guarantee you that 100% of us here considered our very first batches of soap to be pretty good.... until we compared them to our soaps made 6 months to a year later, that is. If you really and truly want to make good soap, please continue reading....
In your other thread, I asked you a few very important questions about your second batch- namely what kind of lye you used and how much of it you used as per water in order to come up with 3.5 oz of lye water. Your answer to me was the following:
You still didn't specify if you are using NaOH or KOH, but in any case, please stop using the egg test- it is not a reliable/accurate/proper method of making lye solution if you want to make good soap..
In order to make good soap, you need to invest in a digital scale, because dry, crystal lye needs to be weighed. And the weight amount needs to be the correct weight in proportion to the weight of the particular oils/fats you are using in your batch. In other words, you cannot safely use the same amount of lye for a 16oz batch of a 100% lard soap that you would use for a 16oz batch of soap made with other kinds of oils/fats because (as so many have already pointed out) each oil has a different SAP# and they each need a different amount of lye to be able turn them into good soap. Hopefully, you are indeed using a digital scale to weigh your ingredients instead of using volume measurements?
You need to use less goat milk. Twelve oz. is way too much liquid for your size batch..... not to mention that you need to be much more specific in regards to your lye solution: i.e., how much lye to water? That is a very critical point that must be addressed. It can either make or break your soap.
If you go to SoapCalc and just type in the oil/fat amounts for your above recipe without messing with any of the other inputs on the calculator and then click on the "View or Print' button, you'll see how much lye (in dry, crystal form) you'll need to weigh out, and also the absolute most amount of water (or other liquid) you'll need to weigh out for that batch in order to make a decent, safe batch of soap. SoapCalc has good, built-in defaults that will give newbies a good outcome if you just type in your oil/fat amounts without messing with the other inputs.
When I entered in your oil/fat amounts without messing with any of the other inputs, I came up with 3.5 oz weight of lye in dry crystal form, and a total of 9 oz. weight of water or other liquid (rounded off) for your batch..
The 9oz water amount that's shown is based on their default "38% water as per oil" amount, and is considered a 'full water" amount in soap parlance. That's why I specified above that it's the 'absolute most' amount of water or other liquid you'll want to use in that particular size batch with those particular oils, if you want a good outcome.
For what it's worth, if it were me making that recipe, I would dissolve my 3.5 oz weight of lye into 3.5 oz weight of water to make up my lye solution, and I would use only 5.5 oz of goat milk (to make up the total of 9oz liquid). And for ease of soaping without complications, I would add the goat milk to my oils after they are melted (rather than adding it to the lye solution). After the milk is mixed into the oils/fats, I would then add my lye solution into the oil/fat/milk mixture, bring to trace, and pour into my mold.
IrishLass
The batches you have made so far might indeed be called soap, but there's a huge difference between soap and good soap. I think I can pretty much guarantee you that 100% of us here considered our very first batches of soap to be pretty good.... until we compared them to our soaps made 6 months to a year later, that is. If you really and truly want to make good soap, please continue reading....
In your other thread, I asked you a few very important questions about your second batch- namely what kind of lye you used and how much of it you used as per water in order to come up with 3.5 oz of lye water. Your answer to me was the following:
You still didn't specify if you are using NaOH or KOH, but in any case, please stop using the egg test- it is not a reliable/accurate/proper method of making lye solution if you want to make good soap..
In order to make good soap, you need to invest in a digital scale, because dry, crystal lye needs to be weighed. And the weight amount needs to be the correct weight in proportion to the weight of the particular oils/fats you are using in your batch. In other words, you cannot safely use the same amount of lye for a 16oz batch of a 100% lard soap that you would use for a 16oz batch of soap made with other kinds of oils/fats because (as so many have already pointed out) each oil has a different SAP# and they each need a different amount of lye to be able turn them into good soap. Hopefully, you are indeed using a digital scale to weigh your ingredients instead of using volume measurements?
sligilion said:
You need to use less goat milk. Twelve oz. is way too much liquid for your size batch..... not to mention that you need to be much more specific in regards to your lye solution: i.e., how much lye to water? That is a very critical point that must be addressed. It can either make or break your soap.
If you go to SoapCalc and just type in the oil/fat amounts for your above recipe without messing with any of the other inputs on the calculator and then click on the "View or Print' button, you'll see how much lye (in dry, crystal form) you'll need to weigh out, and also the absolute most amount of water (or other liquid) you'll need to weigh out for that batch in order to make a decent, safe batch of soap. SoapCalc has good, built-in defaults that will give newbies a good outcome if you just type in your oil/fat amounts without messing with the other inputs.
When I entered in your oil/fat amounts without messing with any of the other inputs, I came up with 3.5 oz weight of lye in dry crystal form, and a total of 9 oz. weight of water or other liquid (rounded off) for your batch..
The 9oz water amount that's shown is based on their default "38% water as per oil" amount, and is considered a 'full water" amount in soap parlance. That's why I specified above that it's the 'absolute most' amount of water or other liquid you'll want to use in that particular size batch with those particular oils, if you want a good outcome.
For what it's worth, if it were me making that recipe, I would dissolve my 3.5 oz weight of lye into 3.5 oz weight of water to make up my lye solution, and I would use only 5.5 oz of goat milk (to make up the total of 9oz liquid). And for ease of soaping without complications, I would add the goat milk to my oils after they are melted (rather than adding it to the lye solution). After the milk is mixed into the oils/fats, I would then add my lye solution into the oil/fat/milk mixture, bring to trace, and pour into my mold.
IrishLass
Are you using NAOH or KOH. Also the more liquid you use the quicker and hotter it will gel. Watch for overheating.
...and you are arguing with good advice again.
Stop, just stop.
1. Did you run your recipe through a lye calculator or not? If not, stop now and go do that. FOLLOW the amount of lye and water it says.
2. Do you have a digital scale? If not, stop now and go get one.
3. What kind of lye are you using? Where did you buy it, and how do you know it is suitable to make soap with?
Without the above questions being answered, nothing anyone says means anything.
Stop, just stop.
1. Did you run your recipe through a lye calculator or not? If not, stop now and go do that. FOLLOW the amount of lye and water it says.
2. Do you have a digital scale? If not, stop now and go get one.
3. What kind of lye are you using? Where did you buy it, and how do you know it is suitable to make soap with?
Without the above questions being answered, nothing anyone says means anything.
