Another HP vs CP thread

[Phteven]

Okay, I have lurked and read a few threads, and I think I have a pretty good handle on the functional differences between HP and CP. I am only a few batches into my soap making, and all three so far have been hot process.

I chose hot process for a few reasons: it seems simpler, it speeds up the saponification process, and I happen to have a crock pot I never use. So, bam.

Here's my question. Why does CP seem to be the default way to make soap? For those of you who make soap using cold process, why that over hot process? Is it because you can make larger batches to sell?

Thanks!

 

[Kittish]

I prefer CP over HP mainly due to aesthetics. You have a lot more creative freedom with doing designs in CP than you do with HP. I'm also not a huge fan of the 'rustic' look that seems to go along with HP soap. If you only want to make single color or uncolored soaps, then it doesn't matter really.

 

[toxikon]

I prefer CP over HP mainly due to aesthetics. You have a lot more creative freedom with doing designs in CP than you do with HP. I'm also not a huge fan of the 'rustic' look that seems to go along with HP soap. If you only want to make single color or uncolored soaps, then it doesn't matter really.

Ditto! I love making pretty soap. :mrgreen:

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I think CP is MUCH easier and faster than HP. With pre-batched lye solution, I can have a 750g batch of CP without swirls in the molds in 20 minutes. All the rest of the time is unattended.

 

[dibbles]

I too prefer the look of CP. Actually, in the nearly 3 years I've been making soap, I've never made a batch of HP.

 

[Kittish]

I think CP is MUCH easier and faster than HP. With pre-batched lye solution, I can have a 750g batch of CP without swirls in the molds in 20 minutes. All the rest of the time is unattended.

This, too.

 

[Phteven]

You guys think cold process is easier? Huh. I did NOT expect that. I get that the hot process takes a little longer. The last batch I made took about 3 hours start to finish. But the process is so straightforward, I guess the CP seems more complicated. I mean, you have to worry about temperatures of the oil and of the lye solution.

Thanks for all of the replies so far. I appreciate it.

 

[artemis]

I guess the CP seems more complicated. I mean, you have to worry about temperatures of the oil and of the lye solution.

I do not worry about temperatures of the oil. As long as they are fluid and not cloudy, and not too hot to touch the bowl, I soap. If I'm making plain soap, I just mix the fats and the lye solution, pour it in the mold, and leave it alone. It only gets complicated if I want to add a swirl.

 

[misz_emt17]

I have heard that with HP it allows you to use the soap almost immediately or the next day because cooking to soap expedites the saponification process. That excites me till I heard you should still let it sit for weeks in order for it to cure even more.

 

[Phteven]

I have heard that with HP it allows you to use the soap almost immediately or the next day because cooking to soap expedites the saponification process. That excites me till I heard you should still let it sit for weeks in order for it to cure even more.

This is actually pretty exciting for me, because I've been using the soap I've made for weeks now, and to learn that it will just get better after a few more weeks is pretty awesome.

I don't know much, but I do know that it is usable after a day or so. This is not to say that it is fully cured. But it's plenty soapy for me and I feel clean after using it. Now, being such a newbie, I may just have very low standards.

 

[DeeAnna]

Make small batches -- 1 lb or 500 grams of fats. Make them fairly often. If you fill the pipeline with a small batch per week or so, you'll get lots of practice to advance your skills as a soaper and you will always have nicely cured soap to play with ... uh, I mean ... wash with.

And after a year or so, you'll hopefully grow out of the beginner "gotta have it NOW!" expectation and will be more willing to go with the flow of soap making rather than fret about it.

CP soap saponifies a little slower than HP, tis true, but that's not something I worry about. I've been making soap for a few years, so getting the soap saponified ASAP is not a big priority. I don't normally use my soap right away, whether HP or CP, because the soap really needs to cure for the longest life, best lather, and nicest skin feel. I like my soap to be at its best when I use it for bathing. If instant gratification is a requirement, maybe another hobby would be better?

As far as CP vs HP -- CP lets the soaper be more visually creative with patterns and color. It looks nicer IMO when finished. There's no "swayback" look from excessive shrinkage as the bars cure. The process of saponification is more hands off as Brewer George pointed out -- very little hovering and no active cooking.

 

[IrishLass]

CP is my preferred method. I only HP if I absolutely have to, such as with my shaving soap/croap (which contains a lot of stearic acid), or if I am using a fragrance oil that doesn't play nice in CP.

There's a lot of misinformation out there regarding HP vs CP and how quickly one can use them or not. Soap (whether HP or CP) is perfectly safe to use as soon as the initial saponification reaction of turning the oils into soap is complete and it has reached tongue neutrality (i.e. does not zap when the tongue test is applied). For what it's worth, my gelled CP (and the gelled CP of many others here on the forum) is tongue neutral within 18 to 24 hours of having been poured into the mold and is as perfectly safe to use as tongue-neutral HP. Both my gelled CP and HP soaps lather nicely and do not burn my skin......but they are still not the best they will be at the 4 week mark. By 4 weeks, the natural micro-reactions that continue on inside both types of soaps at the molecular level (which go towards building and rearranging the crystalline matrix of the soap as it strives to maintain a dynamic equilibrium) have had enough time to do some wonderful things to them.....things such as the pH dropping by a point or so, increased mildness and increased lathering abilities, as well as increased longevity.

Since this is so, and since my CP comes out looking sooooo much prettier and more streamlined looking than my HP, I prefer to CP. Plus, my CP does not take as long for me to make as my HP, even when I do intricate swirls with my CP, which is great if I don't have too much time on my hands to soap on whatever given day.


IrishLass

 

[Phteven]

Make small batches -- 1 lb or 500 grams of fats. Make them fairly often. If you fill the pipeline with a small batch per week or so, you'll get lots of practice to advance your skills as a soaper and you will always have nicely cured soap to play with ... uh, I mean ... wash with.

And after a year or so, you'll hopefully grow out of the beginner "gotta have it NOW!" expectation and will be more willing to go with the flow of soap making rather than fret about it.

CP soap saponifies a little slower than HP, tis true, but that's not something I worry about. I've been making soap for a few years, so getting the soap saponified ASAP is not a big priority. I don't normally use my soap right away, whether HP or CP, because the soap really needs to cure for the longest life, best lather, and nicest skin feel. I like my soap to be at its best when I use it for bathing. If instant gratification is a requirement, maybe another hobby would be better?

As far as CP vs HP -- CP lets the soaper be more visually creative with patterns and color. It looks nicer IMO when finished. There's no "swayback" look from excessive shrinkage as the bars cure. The process of saponification is more hands off as Brewer George pointed out -- very little hovering and no active cooking.

Easy now. I didn’t say I required instant gratification. And I’m not sure how I might have given the impression I’m fretting about anything. I really hope that’s not how I’m coming across. Certainly not my intention.

I appreciate your insights and really like the idea of small batches.

 

[Phteven]

CP is my preferred method. I only HP if I absolutely have to, such as with my shaving soap/croap (which contains a lot of stearic acid), or if I am using a fragrance oil that doesn't play nice in CP.

There's a lot of misinformation out there regarding HP vs CP and how quickly one can use them or not. Soap (whether HP or CP) is perfectly safe to use as soon as the initial saponification reaction of turning the oils into soap is complete and it has reached tongue neutrality (i.e. does not zap when the tongue test is applied). For what it's worth, my gelled CP (and the gelled CP of many others here on the forum) is tongue neutral within 18 to 24 hours of having been poured into the mold and is as perfectly safe to use as tongue-neutral HP. Both my gelled CP and HP soaps lather nicely and do not burn my skin......but they are still not the best they will be at the 4 week mark. By 4 weeks, the natural micro-reactions that continue on inside both types of soaps at the molecular level (which go towards building and rearranging the crystalline matrix of the soap as it strives to maintain a dynamic equilibrium) have had enough time to do some wonderful things to them.....things such as the pH dropping by a point or so, increased mildness and increased lathering abilities, as well as increased longevity.

Since this is so, and since my CP comes out looking sooooo much prettier and more streamlined looking than my HP, I prefer to CP. Plus, my CP does not take as long for me to make as my HP, even when I do intricate swirls with my CP, which is great if I don't have too much time on my hands to soap on whatever given day.


IrishLass

I just read an article on this another poster shared. Really interesting, and I’m very curious how my initial batches improve with age. I am also going to try these same recipes as a cold process, just to see how they look.

Pretty soap isn’t my primary goal, but if I can make it look better, why the heck not?

 

[Seawolfe]

To my tiny mind there are only 3 reasons to do HP: 1) Im insisting on using an EO or FO that accelerates or behaves badly, 2) Im making shaving soap or some such or 3) I only have about half of the amount of scent needed for the size batch Im making. I dont care for the lumpier look of HP, and I like how CP looks after a good cure. I've never been one to selectively superfat, so thats a non-issue, but could be a reason for someone else. In my experience HP is only "useable" (ie saponified) about 12-24 hours before CP, but the necessary cure time to make it a GOOD bar of soap is about the same.

FWIW I dont even measure my temps any more when CP'ing - just make sure the melted oils are clear and I can put my hand against the outside of both the lye container and oil container fairly comfortably.

 

[DeeAnna]

Easy now. I didn’t say I required instant gratification. And I’m not sure how I might have given the impression I’m fretting about anything. I really hope that’s not how I’m coming across. Certainly not my intention.

I appreciate your insights and really like the idea of small batches.

I was speaking more in general and more in reaction to the comments by misz_emt17. I should have quoted so it was more clear what I was talking about.

Speaking to you, Phteven -- I understand you might not need instant gratification, but others do seem to have that need. And they do fret. :mrgreen:

 

[Phteven]

I was speaking more in general. You might not need instant gratification, but others contributing to this and similar threads do seem to have that need. And they do fret. :mrgreen:

Lol. I’m glad. Apparently, I only fret about whether I appear to be fretting. :think:

So, just a quick note. If I like the amount of smell I get in a hp recipe, I’ll need to use more EO in the equivalent CP recipe. Is that correct?

 

[SunRiseArts]

OP I also LOVE HP. I did HP exclusively for a very long time.

If you are making only one color, CP is faster and easier, so I agree with you. But HP is faster clean up, and more organized. Also easier to work with fragrances.

In my personal opinion, I know here people are adamant about letting HP cure, and while is true it would make for a harder bar, I think HP can be used a lot faster, yes after a week or so. The first time I made CP, I used it within 4 weeks and it was not ready as my skin got itchy and red, but 3 more weeks the soap was ok. That stuff usually does not happen with HP.

And you can also make beautiful soap with HP with lots of detail if necessary. Is called the HP fluid method. There is a lady on youtube that would live your mouth open. personally I tried it, and it was a disaster, but I gave up quickly, and experience comes with practice. And if you are going to divide all those colors, might as well do CP.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=hot+process+fluid+soap&FORM=HDRSC2

http://www.lovinsoap.com/2016/11/fluid-hot-process-soap-tutorial-recipe-fluid-hp/

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

That is the distinction between what people would consider"ready" when it comes to a bar of soap. For me, it has to last long enough. An uncured hp bar will lather and so on well enough, won't be harsh (all things being equal) but it will be used up much quicker than a well cured bar would be.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...The first time I made CP, I used it within 4 weeks and it was not ready as my skin got itchy and red, but 3 more weeks the soap was ok. That stuff usually does not happen with HP...."

Honestly, that should not happen with properly made CP soap either. CP soap should be skin safe within a few days after making.