Another DOS post

[Fernando Sage]

I also live in South Florida and I have learned a few things because when I first moved here, I got DOS several times. I now always use distilled water, not tap, make sure to cover any racks, even if you think they are coated, also cure away from Sunlight (of course we live in AC year round), I also use citric acid (which reacts with the lye to form sodium citrate, which is a chelator). Adding a chelator helps a lot, I also add EDTA to every soap, and since I have been doing this I have not experienced DOS.

South Florida is definitely challenging at times for soaps. Lol
We were not using distilled water but clearly that is a must. A lot of people have told us that.

@DeeAnna, I completely disagree with using 38% water as a percentage of oils. First that is a lot of water - way too much for cold processed soap, this was originally meant for hot processed soap. Second, it's a better idea to relate the water to the lye, since water has nothing to do with oils, and everything to do with lye. I personally use 1.6:1 water to lye ratio, but for some soaps that are higher in liquid oils, I use 1.3:1. Third, using a ratio or even a lye concentration is better because you get more consistent results. With 38% water as a percentage of oils you can get an unstable emulsion, (particularly for new soapmakers who can't spot emulsion), glycerin rivers and soap warping because of the great amount of water loss and lots of soda ash.

We were using 38% at first and one of the things I didn’t like was how much smaller the final bars became after curing, and some times they would get concave Like the image attached, of course not as much but with too much water, when they cure the shape changes a lot.
We’ll try with 1.6:1 - thanks for the tip and for sharing all your knowledge.

 

[Fernando Sage]

I soap very cool (75-80 tops). I like to make designs, (no plain soap for me) and need to soap cool.

We try to soap very cool also, usually below 90/95. We don’t use fragrances and some EO are too dramatic with high temps lol - My feeling is that if we soap at high temp we feel the scent almost disappears. Does it make sense?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

It sounds like the tap water should go to the top of your list. That's an easy fix.

I have been using 40% lye concentration (1.5:1) for most of my batches for three years now and with virtually no issues. I save a little on distilled water, can unmold the soap within 18 hours, rarely get ash and, as you noted, my bars don't shrink much and they don't change shape.

 

[AliOop]

You’ve gotten a lot of great suggestions here. IMO, the biggest issue is putting the soaps directly on aluminum racks, and not using distilled water. The other suggestions will certainly help, but contact with aluminum is a sure-fire and quick way to cause DOS, so eliminating that is probably going to fix most if not all of your issues with that. I think you will have smooth sailing from here!

 

[Fernando Sage]

It sounds like the tap water should go to the top of your list. That's an easy fix.

I have been using 40% lye concentration (1.5:1) for most of my batches for three years now and with virtually no issues. I save a little on distilled water, can unmold the soap within 18 hours, rarely get ash and, as you noted, my bars don't shrink much and they don't change shape.

You’ve gotten a lot of great suggestions here. IMO, the biggest issue is putting the soaps directly on aluminum racks, and not using distilled water. The other suggestions will certainly help, but contact with aluminum is a sure-fire and quick way to cause DOS, so eliminating that is probably going to fix most if not all of your issues with that. I think you will have smooth sailing from here!

I sure did learned A LOT with 1 post. I’m beyond grateful to everyone that replied. Trying not to kick myself too much because there are so many simple things I could have been doing already.

Once again thank you for all the knowledge shared! This Forum is one of the best things I could have found.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

YOU'RE WELCOME!!!

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

You now have lots of advice @Fernando Sage, and the most important thing going forward is not to change what is already working for you! Change or modify only one thing at a time in your soaping formula, or nothing at all. I asked questions instead of giving advice because, aside from DOS, you are clearly making beautiful soap!

Water to lye ratio
I didn’t know such a low ratio of water to lye could be used and still have an opportunity to swirl the soap, so I learned something. Since @Mobjack Bay, a great soaper, says she has success with 1.5:1 water to lye ratio, I may try lowing my own ratios.

Please read up on the difference between % of water to oils vs % of water to lye as far as the math is concerned on @DeeAnna’s website. You are already computing your recipes with the water to lye ratio, so stick with that even if you experiment with changing the ratio.

Essential oils
My experience has been that many EOs will fade or disappear quickly in CP soap no matter what we do. Even if we get the scent to stick through the cure process, it will fade shortly after that. I’ve been combing through threads here on SMF with posts by the most experienced members to find single note EOs that stick 6 months or longer. Patchouli and lemongrass EOs have worked for me and seemingly everyone else without fail. Soaps are still fragrant a year later. They are all I really have on my list so far. I’m disappointed I have not found lavender EO to really stick past the 6+ month mark. Perhaps other members can advise on single note EOs that stick? (Looking at you @Zing and @KiwiMoose)

I don’t *test* blends because some EOs will disappear entirely from the blend leaving only stable EO fragrances, so they may still smell nice, just not the same as the original blend. With CP stable EO scenting you may develop good blends that morph into something similar past the 6 month mark. For example, with Patchouli Orange soap the orange will fade, but it you boost the orange EO with lemongrass, the aged soap would still have a patchouli citrus scent.

Many fragrance oils (FOs) are formulated with all natural ingredients. There are only a few fragrance houses supplying the vendors we buy from. One is Lebermuth. Take a look at the number of all natural fragrance blends they offer vendors. They are ingredients found in nature, not EO blends. Vendors we love may change the names of these natural fragrances, but we can learn the original name if we have the product number. Your customers may buy natural FO scented soaps with names that sound fresh and natural such as orange blossom.

DOS
Except for the aluminum cookie sheets with parchment paper that I was moving soap on, my drying racks are restaurant dishwasher racks or plastic shelving from the discount store. The dishwasher racks worked perfectly for the new drying system I set up. Before that I had also looked at the plastic bread racks that you see in grocery stores. Depending on your set up, they may work better for you. Or if you’re handy, it might build wooden racks as others have done.

I grew up in Colorado and know that the conditions that the climate where @Zany_in_CO soaps is not conducive to the formation of DOS, unlike the climate where I live now in Massachusetts with an unusually rainy summer and natural open-window cooling. Wintertime here isn’t an issue because central heating drys humidity from the air in my home. And climate here is very different from the 4 years I spent in Houston, TX, where we had air conditioning. @KiwiMoose ’s advice seems a good match for soaping conditions in your climate @Fernando Sage.

I enjoyed reading your replies to everyone who jumped in to help you. And I’m now inspired to trial a 1.5:1 ratio on GMOH test batch this afternoon.

 

[Kaybrantley]

Oh no oh no oh no!!!!! I was re-reading @DeeAnna’s Soapy Stuff page on DOS and read that waxed paper is not enough of a barrier between metal and soap because the metal molecules still travel through the paper. Well, guess what? Thinking it was enough of a barrier, I’ve had my most recent soap living on aluminum cookie sheets with parchment for the last week! I needed to be able to move the soap around when I need the kitchen table. Darn. Now I’ll pray to the soap gods that the soap will be OK.
View attachment 73777
Last week I broke down and ordered a small dehumidifier that was supposed to be ready for pickup that day. Instead I’ve been waiting a week and should be able to get it on Wednesday. I will be able to set up my drying system with the fan in my daughter’s room since she’s not here. New soaps shall stay in their molds until then.

The other info that was good to read on the Soapy Stuff DOS page was about the importance of making certain that silicone molds are scrupulously clean. Because I wanted to make sure there was no chance of silicone rash showing up with CPOP batches, I started lining the log molds and small slab mold with freezer paper. I figured the extra time was worth it compared to planing the bars and have been happy with how easily the logs come out of the molds. It’s nice to know that I’ve also been helping to avoid any DOS from developing. Sometimes I accidentally do the right thing.

 

[Kaybrantley]

I ordered stainless steel shelves for my bakers rack but one of them turned out to be aluminum. I ordered clear plastic placemats from Amazon to put on the rack. Problem solved. No more DOS

 

[Mobjack Bay]

As for EOs sticking around, I have good results based on following the recommendations of others and my own testing, as summarized in this post.

Some of the simpler blends I've tested are described here.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

As for EOs sticking around, I have good results based on following the recommendations of others and my own testing, as summarized in this post.

Some of the simpler blends I've tested are described here.

Thank you for posting this link, @Mobjack Bay! I have it bookmarked and studied it thoroughly before, but I didn’t think to pull it up when I was posting. To clarify, I do use blends, but to find out if a EO scent actually sticks, I test it as a single note. What sticks in my brain is that lemon scented oils other than citrus stick: lemon eucalyptus, lemongrass and litsea. I have patchouly soap made over a year ago that still smells great. In my basement, I have several EOs on the list that I have not yet tested myself as a single note in soap: Virginia cedarwood, fir needle, anise, several types of basil, and several others on the list. I have a lavender soap made for a friend that still has some fragrance a year later, a HP made specifically with hopes of the lavender fragrance sticking. For clove and cinnamon leaf, which I also have, I would use them only in HP soap, due to soap-on-a-stick acceleration.

Does anyone know of an online resource that lists the main fragrance chemicals identified in essential oils? Also, a number of the EOs are listed as not safe for pregnant women. I would especially appreciate being able to identify constituents that are significant contact allergens.

Edit to add info: I forgot to mention one of my favorite blends is lemon-mint with tea tree oil. I used peppermint and lemon grass with the tea tree oil. Refreshing!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

So the essential oils I admit we need to manage better. We buy from different sources almost every time.

I have been buying EOs from Sun Pure Botanicals for years. They are located in NM. Women-owned company. Great value for the dollar. Incredible inventory. Incredible choice of sizes. Choose plastic or glass bottles. Some fixed oils as well as EOs. Some EO blends too. A good company to do business with. My order usually arrives safe and sound in 3 days, NM to CO.

Here's a sample of prices:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sun-pure-botanicals.77180/

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Does anyone know of an online resource that lists the main fragrance chemicals identified in essential oils?

Put your reading glasses on and grab a cuppa. This is a lot of info to read all at once:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7865210/
HTH

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

Put your reading glasses on and grab a cuppa. This is a lot of info to read all at once:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7865210/
HTH

Thank you, @Zany_in_CO!!! This is exactly what I’m looking for.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Thank you, @Zany_in_CO!!!

You're welcome!!!

FWIW, I use Eden Botanicals dot com to research individual EOs. Good info there. For example, Star Anise:

https://www.edenbotanicals.com/star-anise.html
Choose "EDUCATION" from the top Menu for a wealth of information about using essential oils in aromatherapy and perfume as well as safety guidelines.