Aleppo soap

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Hello everybody,

I managed to find some Oleum Lauri Expressum (bay laurel oil, not bay laurel essential oil) from a chemist in Freiburg, Germany (http://internet-apotheke-freiburg.de/). The parcel is on its way to me as we speak.

My question is: is it possible to make this soap using the cold process method? I have found few recipes and they all seem to use the hot process method. As I never tried it, I am a bit anxious whereas I am used to the cold process method. Because this oil is so expensive, I don't want to ruin it by using the wrong method. What do you recommend?

Also, I was planning to use 40% bay laurel oil and 60% olive oil, or maybe 30% and 70%. Do you think that it is OK just to use those two oils or would my soap be better with something else?

As usual, I rely on your expertise and thank you in advance.
Nicole

 

[Obsidian]

This video shows making Aleppo cp and its a interesting history lesson too. Good luck and please show us the results

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcaEQsynDdY[/ame]

 

[tryanything]

Good video link. I love all of those videos, though be sure to double check the lye calculations. This sounds like an interesting soap. If the oil wasn't so darn hard to find I'd give it a shot.

 

[savonierre]

me too, if I could find the oil..

 

[Obsidian]

I would love to try it too but I'll have to settle for buying authentic bars from etsy.

 

[Sapwn]

Hello everybody,

I managed to find some Oleum Lauri Expressum (bay laurel oil, not bay laurel essential oil) from a chemist in Freiburg, Germany (http://internet-apotheke-freiburg.de/). The parcel is on its way to me as we speak.

My question is: is it possible to make this soap using the cold process method? I have found few recipes and they all seem to use the hot process method. As I never tried it, I am a bit anxious whereas I am used to the cold process method. Because this oil is so expensive, I don't want to ruin it by using the wrong method. What do you recommend?

Also, I was planning to use 40% bay laurel oil and 60% olive oil, or maybe 30% and 70%. Do you think that it is OK just to use those two oils or would my soap be better with something else?

As usual, I rely on your expertise and thank you in advance.
Nicole

Hello Nicole.
There is another recent thread here with information about this soap.


Truth is we cannot make Aleppo soap in our house.
Because we cannot follow the tradition method they use in Aleppo, because we will not use the same sea water, or the same olive oil, or the same laurel oil. It will not cure in the Syrian environment, with the Syrian air conditions and many more.

But we can make something very similar.

Of course you can do it with cold process, i have done it successfully.
30-40% laurel oil is very high according to my opinion. If you use 100% pure laurel oil it can range from 8% to 14%.

These are the percentages that Syrians follow to make the soap.

In my limited experience laurel oil is very imposing and it will make its presence evident in these percentages.

 

[tryanything]

Wow that video you linked in the other thread is pretty awesome. Why do they add the laurel oil after the lye has been added to the olive oil? I noticed that in the Soapmaing 101 video also.

 

[Sapwn]

Yes, you are right. In both videos they add laurel oil in light trace.

I don't know why.
Maybe because they prefer that laurel oil occupy large part of the unsaponified superfat oil in order to take advantage of its properties since lye seems to follow a "first come, first served" policy

 

[Sapwn]

I noticed however, that in this video, even if the subtitles state that the first oil that is being poured in the pot is the olive oil and the second one is the laurel oil, the image shows the opposite. The first oil is black, which is the color of pure laurel oil, and the second oil green, which is the actual color of olive oil.

If there were no subtitles I would say that they put first the laurel oil and after that the olive oil.

 

[tryanything]

I was wondering about that. I thought the olive oil looked really dark and muddy but figured since it was on an industrial level maybe it was just darker. The first oil being the laurel oil makes sense.

 

[dagmar88]

since lye seems to follow a "first come, first served" policy

This idea has been dispelled years ago. Way before I started anyway.
The only way to influence the oil(s) that end up as superfat, is by adding after saponification.

Quote from Kevin dunn's Scientific Soapmaking:


"The composition of unsaponified oil in finished cold-process soap does not depend on the order in which the oils are added. The oil component that reacts most slowly with the lye will be more concentrated in the unsaponified oil than in the original oil blend."

 

[Sapwn]

Quote from Kevin dunn's Scientific Soapmaking:


"The composition of unsaponified oil in finished cold-process soap does not depend on the order in which the oils are added. The oil component that reacts most slowly with the lye will be more concentrated in the unsaponified oil than in the original oil blend."

Adding oil not just after another, but in heavy trace is not the same thing.

No argument about oils with great difference in saponification velocity.

But if I follow a recipe with 0% superfat rate and make it reach heavy trace, which means that the bigger part of the lye has already react with oil, I would expect the extra oil (superfat) added at that point, to reach higher concentration in the final unsaponified oils if it has similar or very close reaction velocity, or even lower.

 

[dagmar88]

But if I follow a recipe with 0% superfat rate and make it reach heavy trace, which means that the bigger part of the lye has already react with oil, I would expect the extra oil (superfat) added at that point, to reach higher concentration in the final unsaponified oils if it has similar or very close reaction velocity, or even lower.

Even at heavy trace, saponification has really just started.
At this stage, salt and fatty acids have not formed a stable connection yet.
They keep swapping in and out until saponification is completed.

 

[DeeAnna]

I fully agree with Dagmar. At trace -- light trace, heavy trace, whatever kind of trace -- saponification has just barely started. Adding fats at trace does very little if anything to control the chemistry.

If you hot process a soap to complete saponfication THEN add a fat, that is completely different. You will have successfully controlled what fat is the superfat by first ensuring saponification is 99% complete.