Bay Oil is not good for you, not to drink anyway. For the Bay Rum aftershave, it is important to get the Pimenta racemosa and not the Laurus nobilis the latter being the bay leaf used for cooking.
Aftershave alcohol
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gemsupthepoley
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lillybella
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I can't find anything on ATF regulations. Anyone have a link?
Thank you all for the information :smile:
Thank you all for the information :smile:
lillybella
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What does EDT mean, please?
Eau de Toilette - aftershave has a low % of scent, and there are increasing concentrations -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfume#Concentration
Parfum or extrait, in English perfume extract, or simply perfume: 15–40% (IFRA: typical 20%) aromatic compounds
Esprit de Parfum (ESdP): 15–30% aromatic compounds, a seldom used strength concentration in between EdP and perfume
Eau de Parfum (EdP), Parfum de Toilette (PdT): 10–20% (typical ~15%) aromatic compounds, sometimes listed as "eau de perfume" or "millésime." Parfum de Toilette is a less common term that is generally analogous to Eau de Parfum.
Eau de Toilette (EdT): 5–15% (typical ~10%) aromatic compounds
Eau de Cologne (EdC): Chypre citrus type perfumes with 3–8% (typical ~5%) aromatic compounds. "Original Eau de Cologne" is a registered trademark.
Perfume mist: 3–8% aromatic compounds (typical non-alcohol solvent)
Splash (EdS)[citation needed] and aftershave: 1–3% aromatic compounds. "EdS" is a registered trademark.[citation needed]
lillybella
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Gentleman, this is very helpful! thank you so much.
so
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftershave
an aftershave with containing only 1 to 3% alcohol wouldn't need approval by the ATF at this %.
Would it then need a preservative?
so
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftershave
an aftershave with containing only 1 to 3% alcohol wouldn't need approval by the ATF at this %.
Would it then need a preservative?
Those % are the scent - I make about 80% of the product alcohol, with the other 20% being the scent and then distilled water to make up the delta.
You have to do a lot of digging on the site and then it is not easy to interpret.
Would be easier, although most likely time consuming, to call them. At least they could give you an idea as to where to start. I remember my Brother in law had oodles of fun getting his gun license so he could sell.
There are two kinds of Everclear -- 151 proof (75.5% ethanol) and 190 proof (95% ethanol). Depends on the laws in the state where it is purchased.
More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)
Bear in mind that the alcohol percentages for Everclear and other drinkable alcohol products are based on measuring by VOLUME not by weight.
More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_by_volume
***
As far as ethanol as a preservative --
"...Ethanol (not vodka, instead use 190 Everclear alcohol or skin safe cosmetic use denatured alcohol) anything containing 20-25% ethanol is self preserving. Alcohol is astringent so not a great add if you want a moisturising lotion...."
More: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/
You'll find other sources that say 15% ethanol is self preserving, but I don't buy that. Vinegar bacteria can exist in the higher-proof wines (around 14% to 16% by volume). That tells me that 15% ethanol content is not a reliable preservative.
More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)
Bear in mind that the alcohol percentages for Everclear and other drinkable alcohol products are based on measuring by VOLUME not by weight.
More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_by_volume
***
As far as ethanol as a preservative --
"...Ethanol (not vodka, instead use 190 Everclear alcohol or skin safe cosmetic use denatured alcohol) anything containing 20-25% ethanol is self preserving. Alcohol is astringent so not a great add if you want a moisturising lotion...."
More: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/
You'll find other sources that say 15% ethanol is self preserving, but I don't buy that. Vinegar bacteria can exist in the higher-proof wines (around 14% to 16% by volume). That tells me that 15% ethanol content is not a reliable preservative.
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I highly recommend starting with your state liquor agency. Every state has different laws when it comes to alcohol so that would be your best bet. In AZ they're very accessible by phone and very good at answering questions.
lillybella
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Everything gets so complicated!
MtnSoaper
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I've been looking into the legalities as well. Check out this link:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...true&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title27/27cfrv1_02.tpl#0
especially the following:
I'm not a lawyer, but it is my understanding that since Everclear is tax-paid, and perfumes/ colognes are nonbeverage products, you wouldn't need a permit. . . at least from the Feds. On the state level, it gets rather complicated as each state has it's own laws. I'm still trying to understand NYS but plan on contacting someone at some point.
As for selling products made with SDA, it is my understanding that you need a permit because it is purchased tax-free and therefor needs a paper trail to verify that it is not being used for beverage related products. I gather that SDA can easily be un-denatured in the right hands.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...true&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title27/27cfrv1_02.tpl#0
especially the following:
I'm not a lawyer, but it is my understanding that since Everclear is tax-paid, and perfumes/ colognes are nonbeverage products, you wouldn't need a permit. . . at least from the Feds. On the state level, it gets rather complicated as each state has it's own laws. I'm still trying to understand NYS but plan on contacting someone at some point.
As for selling products made with SDA, it is my understanding that you need a permit because it is purchased tax-free and therefor needs a paper trail to verify that it is not being used for beverage related products. I gather that SDA can easily be un-denatured in the right hands.
Dorymae
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The key words are "unfit for beverage use".
From the recipe posted I'm not sure they would consider it unfit to drink. With the small amount of witch hazel (which is a very low toxicity to begin with) they may well call the concoction a drink.
From the recipe posted I'm not sure they would consider it unfit to drink. With the small amount of witch hazel (which is a very low toxicity to begin with) they may well call the concoction a drink.
Lion Of Judah
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you're right about this. i found it out when i was trying to formulate my body spray with vodka. and you also have to add a product to your alcohol [the name eludes me at the moment] so it's not digestible by humans.
Beverage Alcohol & Cosmetics - What's the Law?
We get a lot of questions from those making perfumes, linen sprays or other cosmetics using drinking (beverage) alcohol like Vodka. The law regarding beverage alcohol in cosmetics and toiletries is finite. You may NOT legally sell skincare products manufactured with beverage alcohol. The Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms rules concerning the use of alcohol in cosmetics are straightforward and fairly easy to understand.
The first ATF rule is that beverage alcohol MAY NOT BE USED in cosmetics. Technically, the ATF considers you to be selling beverage alcohol without a license, proper reporting and payment of taxes.
The FDA also has specific rules about the use of alcohol. The FDA rule is straightforward: Bitrex must be added to prevent ingestion and accidental poisoning with no exceptions.
: http://bathbodysupply.blogspot.com/2009/10/beverage-alcohol-cosmetics-whats-law.html
so if you are going to make it for personal use then i would say / think that it should be ok, but other than that you may have a problem. another option that may be open to you is "perfumers alcohol" , i myself am looking into it as an option when making a product to sell to consumers.
lillybella
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Thank you so much!
What is SDA? I just found it = Specially denatured alcohol (SDA)
Does selling the aftershave ONLY online make a difference?
What about recipes for alcohol free aftershaves?
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Do you have any recipes for alcohol free aftershaves?
What would make you even ask if selling online only would make a difference. Selling online does not make one invisible to government agencies or give us the go ahead to sell illegally. On top of that you are then dealing with interstate commerce
lillybella
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:???:
cmzaha, are you always this nasty?
cmzaha, are you always this nasty?
MtnSoaper
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Found this and thought it might be relevant (for those interested in jumping through the hoops needed to sell):
Source:http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...6&mc=true&node=pt27.1.20&rgn=div5#sp27.1.20.a
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I think she's been very helpful in the thread and a little exasperated in the last post.
From all the information and links so far provided, what was it in there that made you think that selling online only would make a difference? I've not read the links as it is not required for me (on this side of the pond we have our own hoops to jump through) but it might be easier for others to help if you specify what points in the laws you are referencing when you ask further questions so that they don't think you are referring to a different place
