advice on HP soaping

[reinbeau]

84oz virgin olive oil
48oz virgin coconut oil
18oz sunflower oil
12oz unrefined shea butter
9oz jojoba oil
9oz tamanu oil
84oz honeysuckle tea (water infused with dried honeysuckle flowers overnight and refrigerated)
24.42oz sodium hydroxide
at trace I add 1.5oz beeswax and 3oz honey
not sure how people put their recipes on here either in percentages or weight so I just put it in weight but I always measure in grams just thought it would be easier to read in ounces. I am open to any advice tweaking this one for it is the most complicated recipe I have ever made. Maybe i should down size the honey a little or even the beeswax was something I was thinking or using more coconut and subbing out some olive and running it though the lye calc. I never used beeswax before in soap but I have used honey before and know the pro's and con's of honey but I am willing to learn more if anyone would like to teach!! Thanks again everyone for all of your words of advice negative and positive. Have a great day everyone!!

First off, please, white space needed! I couldn't read your whole post easily! Paragraphs are important.

Your 'moisture' level is fine, however, I would not add it all at the beginning like that. The 'new' HP method is 50% moisture, that includes the lye water, honey, SF, and any other amount of moisture you want to add. The extra moisture is to keep the batter fluid and to allow swirling time if you are adding any colors.

May I suggest you cut that lye water down to 70 ounces, and when you add the honey (after the cook) - you can use some of the extra water to thin out that honey a bit before you add it (warm the water first).

I use sodium lactate (which is added at the end, I use 1.5 ounce ppo, so for your 180 ounce recipe I'd use 2.7 ounces) which really helps with fluidity, and will lead to a denser 'pack' when you put it into the mold. This sodium lactate counts towards the overall moisture amount.

You don't mention any fragrance, but that also counts as moisture. After your cook, make sure any of the moisture you add is warm. It will help with fluidity.

Are you cooking it too long? It will be drier, chunkier, etc. if you cook too long, and will be more porous as a result. Watch your pot carefully, as soon as it doesn't zap, get your additional moisture into it and mold it. Bang, bang, bang that mold to really settle that batter down.

Another thing that has been found to help is to cool the soap in the mold as quickly as possible. I put mine right into the freezer. It has something to do with the way the soap crystallizes as it cools, from what I've read. You won't get shrinkage as a result (that dipped look that so many HP soaps can get)

HP definitely needs to cure as long as CP. It's done saponifying, but it has to get rid of that excess water.

As for selling so soon, you'll get that from many long time soapers. They have good reason for feeling this way, but they shouldn't lump everyone new into one pot. Some people research, study, experiment, learn, etc. while others are foolish and just whip something together and call themselves soapers. It's all by degrees, really. I've seen some 'experienced' bad soapers too. Just keep studying and learning, and I'm pretty sure you'll be fine http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[girlishcharm2004]

So, you see, newbies who sell bad soap hurt everyone. Even those of us who don't sell. I HOPE those are newbies, anyway. Did I come off witchy? Yep. Did I apologize when I learned the true situation? Yep again. But when you have fought to fix the reputation of handmade wonderful soap for over a year(and some of these folks have been fighting this battle FAR longer!) It gives you a knee-jerk reaction to newbies who go from, "Ooh, this soap is so nice!" to, "I'm going to get rich making soap!" in 2.5 seconds. And I will probably have the same reaction after I get through convincing my ex's aunt with severe eczema to just TRY my unscented, uncolored soap ONCE.(Been 6 months, and I am still trying.) I don't want her to buy my soap, I just want to be able to help her. I would gladly keep making her free soap if she just feels better. Maybe then she will use the laundry and dish soap I made for her also.(not so she will buy from me, just to help her feel better)

I hope I didn't offend you with my post. No one can really know the person on the other side of the computer by just one post and a few words. But, like someone else posted, there are some "experienced" bad soapers. Think of it like driving. My sister, a very new driver, is pretty dang good! My brother on the other hand has been driving for quite a while, yet I would never get in a car with him. I knew an older woman who bragged about the 20 tickets and 8 totalled vehicles she had on her record. You just never know.

As for trying to help people... come on. Help people who want your help. When people tell me what ails them, I'll *mention* what remedy I think would help them out. However, they are ultimately responsible for their choices in life and I respect that. So, I don't pressure them into what *I think* is best for them.

 

[Susie]

As for trying to help people... come on. Help people who want your help. When people tell me what ails them, I'll *mention* what remedy I think would help them out. However, they are ultimately responsible for their choices in life and I respect that. So, I don't pressure them into what *I think* is best for them.

I am a nurse. I have spent a LOT of time explaining to people that they have a problem, and there is a treatment for it. Do you think MDs explain to people what the problem is, and how to take care of it? No. They drop a diagnosis and a prescription on a patient and nothing else. It is up to the nurses to help them work through the denial, anger, bargaining, and depression to help them get to acceptance so we can teach them how to help themselves get better.

Also, this woman and I have spent a LOT of years commiserating about our eczema. I have tried many, many remedies she suggested that failed. I have a good, safe, worked for me for over a year "remedy" that she needs to try. All she needs to do is lose the thought that all handmade soap is bad for her. You see, she bought some "eczema treatment" handmade soap that ended her in the doctor's office for a cortisone injection.

So, with all due respect, you handle your family your way, and I will handle mine my way.

 

[girlishcharm2004]

I am a nurse.

Me too!

 

[JustBeachy]

What a wonderful world of opinions. Here's mine.

I've perused this forum for quite a while before I ever posted and/or joined. My opinion on the "helpfulness and nastiness" comments would be that I've seen both. I would say snide comments on the forum were limited though. There are some postings that made me go 'hmmmm", that are quite possibly just a matter of trying to determine "attitude" from typed speech. Case in point, the weird titles name post. I take to be all in good fun, but could it also be interpreted as making fun of people, and thereby making them less inclined to post? I have pretty thick skin, and it's damn near impossible to offend me, but some people can be pretty sensitive.

By far, I would say the "helpfulness" on this forum far outweighs the negative comments. By at least 98%. Go ahead all you math heads, tell me my calculation was wrong. I can take it. This forum is loaded with questions, at times the same questions, that are replied to with friendly and helpful advice. To me, you can't ask for much more on a public forum.

In the regards to "newbies asking questions about selling". I think both sides have a good point. Bad soap sellers hurt the industry, just like in any other industry. So I can understand the hesitation in giving advice and knee jerk reactions, from the community. But I have two caveats.

First, girlish charm does have some good points, such as, just because you're an experienced soap maker doesn't mean you're following the rules and/or not damaging the reputation of the industry by poor production and/or faulty labeling/advertising. Sometimes an industry's worst offender is the one who has been doing it for years and starts trying to cut costs by cutting corners. Conversely, a newbie could just be someone waiting to become the next great soap producer. Just something to think about.

Second, as someone who has started a couple of businesses, sold the business for a profit and started a new one, I would always be asking questions and researching long before I ever "sold" my product or service. I would search out the advice and opinions of people in the field who were successful as well as those that I thought were less than successful. I sold some soap years back, small scale, and have been toying with the idea again. While I'm very comfortable with the safety, quality and recipes for my soaps, and confident in my business qualifications, I research and ask questions. I browse the forums, I ask questions of people who are in the business, I look at regulations, demographics of target market. All of this done with the prospect of being at least a year out from selling. To me, if I'm going to invest the money in the company, rushing into it will increase my chance of failure. But asking questions now, doesn't always equate to "rushing" the process.

The main problem of judging this on the forums, in my opinion, is we really don't know the full thought process behind someone saying, "I want to sell my soap". If they've been soaping for a "entire" month now and they're going to start selling tomorrow, I see some major problems. And the "warning" posts would be warranted and totally understandable as people try to protect their industry. Then again, jumping to the conclusion that the poster doesn't know what they're doing or isn't just laying out a business plan would also be erroneous.

It's a forum and people are going to respond in ways that some take offense to, sometimes warranted, sometimes not. It's hard to judge emotion based on a typed response. Myself? If I didn't think this was a helpful and good bunch of people, I'd have kept on lurking and not have joined.

Just my two cents. Like all opinions, take it for what it's worth.

 

[cmzaha]

Nope, not too much water/liquid. There is a new way to make HP soap now if you want to be able to do swirls, etc. It's the HP page on FB. A lot of people have discovered and tried this way of making HP. While there are still the basics of HP, some use from 50%-100% liquids and the results are very impressive. I usually make CP but on occasion HP. I wanted to try this new way,so I did. I was doubtful and thought I had done something wrong. However, it was probably the best looking soap i have done thus far.

Everyone in here is so ready to jump on newbies. Why? Why in the world do you tell people that you need the same cure time for CP and HP. Ridiculous. You know the lye is cooked out in any HP recipe.The only reason for a cure time is for water to evaporate. Of course with the extra water in the new recipe it will take some time to take the water out, but not to "cure".

I rarely talk in here because you are the nastiest group of people I have run across in the soaping world. You jump on people, you insult, intimidate, and embarrass. You really should go back and look at what you have said in your posts to newbies. You eat your young. Why? Afraid of the competition? But, every one of you know the most, do the most, have the best soap? Why the intimidation? Because you sit on your computer and TALK soap, you surely don't make it. You know the saying:"If you can't do, then teach".

This group is a long way from being the nastiest group of soapmakers. I can assure you there is another group that is brutal and I will not mention names. The solution is if you do not like us do not visit the group. The people in here are very easy to get along with, although at times we tend to get aggravated at hearing people mention selling and they do not know the rudimentary facts of soapmaking. What makes soap last longer? It is not the feeling of physical hardness of the soap but solubility. What oils make a soap less soluble? I can assure you the more water you use the longer the cure time is going to be or the bar is going to melt away. The lady posting the vid on doing swirls has really not done long term testing on, large water method she is using. Common sense tells you the more water the long the drying time, which is why many of us water discount cp. Cut into a soap with this much water in 6 months and see how wet it still is in the center of the soap.

One other thought does all virgin organic oils make any difference in soap? Most likely not once the lye gets done with it.

Soap does actually cure. A soap that is a year is going to be much nicer than a soap that is even 3 months old.

 

[reinbeau]

Interestingly enough the accuser here is the nastiest poster I've found here on SMF. I've been on another forum that is positively hostile, but I've not experienced anything like that here. Until now.

To the OP, there are two great HP soaping groups on Facebook well worth checking out, just put Hot Process Soap into the FB search box and they'll both come up.

 

[seven]

well said, Carolyn and Ann!

i don't usually get nasty, but something really ticked me off when i was reading the accuser's post, esp. the part about how hostile this forum is. simply not true.
if she/he wants to experience some hostility, she/he should go to another forum (that shall not be named), lol!

The lady posting the vid on doing swirls has really not done long term testing on, large water method she is using. Common sense tells you the more water the long the drying time, which is why many of us water discount cp. Cut into a soap with this much water in 6 months and see how wet it still is in the center of the soap.
interesting point Carolyn. i am also wondering about the same thing. i guess we shall find out the truth in a few months.

 

[IrishLass]

Soap does actually cure. A soap that is a year is going to be much nicer than a soap that is even 3 months old.

I 100% agree. There are still chemical processes going on inside of soap at the micro level than mere water evaporation only. For those interested, we have had several recent posts/threads on the forum that discuss this, and also Dr. Kevin Dunn discusses it in his book, 'Scientific Soapmaking'.


IrishLass

 

[reinbeau]

The lady posting the vid on doing swirls has really not done long term testing on, large water method she is using. Common sense tells you the more water the long the drying time, which is why many of us water discount cp. Cut into a soap with this much water in 6 months and see how wet it still is in the center of the soap.
interesting point Carolyn. i am also wondering about the same thing. i guess we shall find out the truth in a few months.

I used ByrdiJean's method to create the swirl that won the grand prize in Saponifier. I made the soap back in July. It is rock hard. No 'water' inside of it. Just cut a bar in half to see

 

[seven]

I used ByrdiJean's method to create the swirl that won the grand prize in Saponifier. I made the soap back in July. It is rock hard. No 'water' inside of it. Just cut a bar in half to see

interesting! did the soaps take longer to cure coz of the extra water?

btw, big congrats for winning grand prize. i remembered that contest and voted as well. which one is yours? i tried googling but couldn't find it.

 

[reinbeau]

I treat all soaps, HP or CP, the same, I let them cure for a good eight weeks before even looking at them I'm not trying to brag, but here it is, and it came out quite nice (despite the drag marks - yes, it is soft when you cut it) - and it's totally by accident that it did, believe me, I was shocked it was so pretty inside!

 

[seven]

^^^
very pretty! i swear, i wouldn't know it was a hp if you didn't tell me. smooth all the way like cp. i've not tried this byrdijean method yet coz i don't do much hp at all. but it is def something to consider if i ever had to hp a batch.

 

[JustBeachy]

I treat all soaps, HP or CP, the same, I let them cure for a good eight weeks before even looking at them I'm not trying to brag, but here it is, and it came out quite nice (despite the drag marks - yes, it is soft when you cut it) - and it's totally by accident that it did, believe me, I was shocked it was so pretty inside!

Stunning HP soap. Great job.