Advice for the Improvement of Shaving Soap

[CoopLawStudent]

Hey everyone,

I'm trying very hard to perfect a shaving soap for sensitive skin. Something that goes beyond the general "This soap has no fragrance" thing. Here are the numbers for my latest batch:

Palm Oil: 40%
Castor Oil: 25%
Stearic Acid: 17%
Coconut Oil: 8%

I superfat at 10% with the following oils:

Mango Butter: 3%
Watermelon Seed Oil: 3%
Jojoba Oil: 2%
Argan Oil: 2%

I make the soap with 38% water and 24.859% sodium hydroxide (for a ration of 3.023:1)

I also include additional glycerine at 10% ppo, and dissolve silk in the lye/water solution before adding it to the oils. I add .01% Vitamin E as a preservative.

Because I've found it has a tendency to seize otherwise, I hot process the soap in a crockpot.

The numbers reported by SoapCalc are as follows:

Hardness: 46
Cleansing: 6
Conditioning: 51
Bubbly: 28
Creamy: 62
Iodine: 52
INS: 144

So here's the problem: The soap is decent, and lubricates okay when I shave with it, but I can't seem to get a whole lot of volume out of the lather. What I do get has nice dense body, though, and lasts for a long time. I just want to get higher volume out of it so that it's thicker and a bit more comfortable on the face. What I'm thinking of doing is either replacing 5% of the palm oil (or 10%, if 5 is too little) with stearic acid, or possibly replacing that quantity with cottonseed oil instead, which I've read produces a thick and very stable lather.

Help me SMF! You're my only hope!

Thanks!

 

[Seifenblasen]

I only do CP so cannot really comment on your formulation. It appears quite complicated; and one of the common ingredient in shaving soaps, bentonite clay, seems to be missing.

I am of the school of keep it simple and stupid. This is my recipe for CP shaving soap which several of my friends absolutely love, including one who gave to her son who is on Accutane (which makes the skin dry, flaky, and ultra-sensitive). It is also palm-free and very simple to make.

25% coconut oil
20% castor oil
15% mango butter
30% olive oil
5% almond oil
5% wheatgerm oil

Superfat @ about 7%

30% (of total oil weight) water
0.5% (of total oil weight) grapefruit seed extract
2 tsp. of bentonite clay per 500g oil

Essential oil blend (optional, as you expressed the desire to make fragrance-free soap): bergamot, grapefruit, lemon, lavender, rosemary

And a minimum of 8 week cure!

 

[CoopLawStudent]

I don't use bentonite clay (or any clays) because it can cause reactions in sensitive skin types. Silk is hypoallergenic, and achieves much the same effect. Wheat germ oil is HIGHLY comedogenic, so I avoid it out of concern that it will irritate those with acne-prone skin and cause breakouts (as someone who completed a course of Accutane, I can attest that this is not a problem for someone on the drug because it severely inhibits pores' ability to produce sebum; thus, clogged pores are pretty much irrelevant for those on Accutane treatments). Finally, I avoid nut oils entirely out of concern that they might cause a reaction in people with nut allergies.

Yeah, I wasn't kidding about the sensitive thing.

As for the rest of the formula you presented, I think I'm going to stick with my basic design for the moment unless I really cannot improve it any further. I appreciate your taking the time to make suggestions, though. Thanks very much!

 

[Seifenblasen]

Wow!

The wheatgerm and almond oils can be substituted with avocado oil and evening primrose oil. If you have severe nut allergy, you should also be careful where you obtain your oils as many facilities process several different kinds of oil and there is always a chance of cross contamination. This is also the first time I heard that clay, an mostly inert material, can cause allergic reaction.

There is always something new to learn!

P.S. Did some searches and I have not seen any reputable publications that indicate clay as an irritant/allergen to skin. (Dry clay particles can of course irritate the respiratory system or mucus membranes). In fact, here is a very interesting paper on the antibacterial and healing property of French green clay:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904249/

 

[green soap]

I think you could decrease the castor oil and increase the coconut oil to get the effect you want. (leave everything else as is). It will make your conditioning number a little lower, but it is off the scales now anyway. The palm and castor will take care of the lather thickness and creaminess, but you need a bit more coconut for that lather volume.

I make a shave soap too, different formula than either posted here. I am very happy with it. Mine uses cocoa butter, shea, coconut, castor, and olive oils or avocado oil (in the order listed). My stearic acid number is 24 (should be at least 20). I do add 2 tsp bentonite clay PPO as well, and 10% added glycerin (PPO). I don't use palm, or tallow, so the shave soap gets expensive. Folks like it and it lasts a long time though. Oh yes, one version uses goat milk, the other just water (for vegan soap). I have not tested the one with water yet, the one with goat milk is wonderful. Just the right amount of creamy, thick and long lasting lather, plus good 'slip' from the bentonite. I think it would be a good shave soap even without the bentonite.

 

[green soap]

Oh, I also see you SF at 10%. I use 7% for a shave soap. Higher SF% can inhibit lather, something else to consider. Your SF oils look pricy! nice though.

Also, mine is CP, not HP. This should not make a difference in the lather qualities though.

 

[new12soap]

Just a note about clay, I add it to my shaving soap at 1 tsp PPO, but instead of bentonite clay which can be more drawing/drying, I use kaolin clay. To me, using clay makes a big difference is shaving soap.

I agree that you can bump up the coconut a bit to add to your lather.

 

[CoopLawStudent]

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I've upped my stearic acid and coconut oil contents and am going to try another batch tonight. I pulled out the Argan oil entirely due to the expense; also, I feel that the soap is probably pretty kind to the skin already with jojoba, mango butter, and watermelon seed oil. I lowered the superfat percentage to 7%, so we'll see if that affects the lather quality at all.

Regarding the clay, I can personally attest to the fact that it IS an allergen. Both Kaolin and Bentonite cause my skin to burn terribly, and I cannot use any shaving soap that has clay as a component, though I have tried several. Regardless of the conjectural research, my view is that if it irritates MY skin that violently, it could do the same to other people, and I have no wish to subject anyone to that. As such, I use silk instead, which is highly lubricating but is also hypoallergenic. I appreciate your input on the matter regardless.

I'll let you know how the new batch comes out!

 

[Lilahblossom]

My group (guys and gals) like olive oil shaving soap. I superfat at 7% also. Also use coconut and castor. It takes a long time to set up as I use the evoo from the store. But they love the soap and how their skin feels. I haven't added clay. I did try a fo in the last batches but I think for the guys next time I will stick with the tea tree as it has a bit of antifungal action and a little goes a long way. Many soaper like to use tallow for shave soap. Just throwing in some options for you.

 

[Lindy]

You're on the right track upping your Stearic acid, your superfat is fine. To get 'more' lather when face lathering, try reducing the amount of water you are using in your brush. Try this, soak you brush is really, really hot water for about 5 minutes. While it is soaking, put some of that hot water on your bar, basically you are going to 'charge' the soap. Once your brush has finished soaking flick most of the water out of it and then load your brush with the shaving soap. Apply to your prepped face and add literally drops of water a bit at a time until you get the lather you want.

 

[CoopLawStudent]

You're on the right track upping your Stearic acid, your superfat is fine. To get 'more' lather when face lathering, try reducing the amount of water you are using in your brush. Try this, soak you brush is really, really hot water for about 5 minutes. While it is soaking, put some of that hot water on your bar, basically you are going to 'charge' the soap. Once your brush has finished soaking flick most of the water out of it and then load your brush with the shaving soap. Apply to your prepped face and add literally drops of water a bit at a time until you get the lather you want.

Thanks. I actually know how to make a proper lather, as I've been wet shaving for nearly a year now. I'm trying to duplicate the excellent performance of soaps like Cella and Arko, but don't really want to work with tallow. As someone who has posted frequently on the creation of fine shaving soaps, do you think that's a mistake? Should I be using tallow instead of palm oil?

 

[judymoody]

You could try kokum butter if you want to avoid tallow. It's about as high in stearic acid as you'll find in a reasonably priced vegetable-based fat, other than using straight stearic acid, of course. I've been experimenting with all vegetable oil shaving soap and so far, kokum looks promising.

 

[Lindy]

Ah since you are a wet shaver already then you know how much tallow and lanolin is praised on the shaving forums right... Palm is a good replacement for tallow, but nothing touches a tallow and lanolin shaving soaps. Let's go over your recipe and tweak it a bit okay?

Palm Oil: 40% - Change that to Tallow
Castor Oil: 25% - goodly amount
Stearic Acid: 17% - increase to 25%
Coconut Oil: 8% - okay at that level.

I superfat at 10% with the following oils: Unless you are doing HP then these don't really become a SF as the lye takes what the lye takes. Instead add them into the mix with a 10% SF overall. Just a couple of notes on them

Mango Butter: 3% Increase
Watermelon Seed Oil: 3% Put this amount into your Jojoba Oil
Jojoba Oil: 2% Increase amount
Argan Oil: 2% way expensive and I don't think it's adding enough bang for the buck

I make the soap with 38% water Water discount or lye concentration? and 24.859% sodium hydroxide (for a ration of 3.023:1)

You're on the right road. I recommend adding some glycerin in there as well since it will increase your lather. Now if you want to kick it up another notch, add some milk or yoghurt for added creaminess.

I hope this helps...

 

[CoopLawStudent]

Ah since you are a wet shaver already then you know how much tallow and lanolin is praised on the shaving forums right... Palm is a good replacement for tallow, but nothing touches a tallow and lanolin shaving soaps. Let's go over your recipe and tweak it a bit okay?

Palm Oil: 40% - Change that to Tallow
Castor Oil: 25% - goodly amount
Stearic Acid: 17% - increase to 25%
Coconut Oil: 8% - okay at that level.

I superfat at 10% with the following oils: Unless you are doing HP then these don't really become a SF as the lye takes what the lye takes. Instead add them into the mix with a 10% SF overall. Just a couple of notes on them

Mango Butter: 3% Increase
Watermelon Seed Oil: 3% Put this amount into your Jojoba Oil
Jojoba Oil: 2% Increase amount
Argan Oil: 2% way expensive and I don't think it's adding enough bang for the buck

I make the soap with 38% water Water discount or lye concentration? and 24.859% sodium hydroxide (for a ration of 3.023:1)

You're on the right road. I recommend adding some glycerin in there as well since it will increase your lather. Now if you want to kick it up another notch, add some milk or yoghurt for added creaminess.

I hope this helps...

The reason I'm a little concerned about using tallow is that I've heard it can be comedogenic for certain skin types, whereas I have not heard the same about palm. I'm going to avoid lanolin for this one because of the sensitivities some people have to it. Again, the soap is meant for people with sensitive or acne-prone skin. Thanks for the other recommendations, though. I've produced another batch and it seems to be much closer to what I was looking for, but I'm still playing with it. I want something that will equal the easy latherability of Cella or Arko but without the possible comedogenicity that comes from using tallow (I have another soap in mind that will use tallow and lanolin both, but one thing at a time). Thanks for all your help!