If it was all CO only the saponified oil is stripping. The (unsaponified) superfat would then be literally like rubbing the raw oil on your skin.
Adding Coconut Milk to Cold Process Soaps
- Thread starter Kimberly6891
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Soap is an emulsifier. An emulsifier causes fats, which are normally not water soluble, to become water soluble. This is why soap is able to remove grease and oils from your skin, clothing, or dishes.
When you add superfat to the soap, the soap has to emulsify the superfat as well as emulsify the fats on your skin -- both natural skin oils as well as greasy dirt.
If the soap is so strong that it is removing too much of the desirable natural oils and proteins from the skin, you need to add enough superfat to lessen its effectiveness and make the soap milder to the skin.
Coconut oil soap at zero superfat is often used as a household and dish cleanser as well as a "stain stick" for pretreating spots. It's so strong, however, that people often need to wear gloves when washing dishes so their hands don't dry out.
When you add superfat to the soap, the soap has to emulsify the superfat as well as emulsify the fats on your skin -- both natural skin oils as well as greasy dirt.
If the soap is so strong that it is removing too much of the desirable natural oils and proteins from the skin, you need to add enough superfat to lessen its effectiveness and make the soap milder to the skin.
Coconut oil soap at zero superfat is often used as a household and dish cleanser as well as a "stain stick" for pretreating spots. It's so strong, however, that people often need to wear gloves when washing dishes so their hands don't dry out.
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DianaMoon
Well-Known Member
Thank you! Clearly I have to read your pages again, and go back to basics.
You are doing a good job of asking questions, and I for one don't mind answering them because I can tell that you are trying to learn, and that you are doing some research on your own to supplement what we are telling you here. Good job!
One of the concepts that may still be confusing you is that behavior of the oil in question may be very different from pre-saponification to post-saponification. Coconut oil (and its close relatives, palm kernel oil and babassu oil) is not stripping in its natural state. It only becomes stripping (high cleansing) after it is saponified.
Thus, any CO remaining as superfat will not behave the same way that the saponified CO will behave. The saponified CO is actually not CO any more at all - it has been split up into different components, some of which have combined with the lye to make soap.
It is the same with the NaOH. In its pre-soaping state, the NaOH is very caustic and will burn the skin. But after saponification, it has combined with the FAs into soap molecules, and thus is no longer caustic. Of course, if you have a lye excess, that excess lye will still be caustic because the chemical reaction has not taken place.
One of the concepts that may still be confusing you is that behavior of the oil in question may be very different from pre-saponification to post-saponification. Coconut oil (and its close relatives, palm kernel oil and babassu oil) is not stripping in its natural state. It only becomes stripping (high cleansing) after it is saponified.
Thus, any CO remaining as superfat will not behave the same way that the saponified CO will behave. The saponified CO is actually not CO any more at all - it has been split up into different components, some of which have combined with the lye to make soap.
It is the same with the NaOH. In its pre-soaping state, the NaOH is very caustic and will burn the skin. But after saponification, it has combined with the FAs into soap molecules, and thus is no longer caustic. Of course, if you have a lye excess, that excess lye will still be caustic because the chemical reaction has not taken place.
DianaMoon
Well-Known Member
Thanks - sometimes it's hard to know when one is being a PITA and hijacking a thread, or being useful.
Believe it or not, I actually went to bed thinking about exactly this. We must have had a Vulcan mind meld last night. When I woke up, what you wrote occurred to me - but I'm glad you wrote it.
To be repetitive but concise in case another noob runs across this thread: I had two areas of confusion.
First, I mis-interpreted DeAnna's "lye-tornado" description as a process that worked on everything in the mix, including the superfat. That was my misunderstanding.
Second, if CO is stripping then why would adding more of it be soothing? Because it survives the miracle of saponification intact and isn't the same as before. (Apologies to scientists who know it's not a miracle, it's a chemical process, but it's still a wow-awesome process, isn't it??) Now I've got to do some more reading about why these fatty acids when saponified are stripping, but when they survive in their whole state as an oil, they are not. (For most people, but that's another story for another day.)
Thank you!
It's not the coconut OIL that is stripping. The OIL is nice on skin; it ADDS fat to the surface of the skin which is soothing and protective. Coconut OIL is not able to emulsify and remove natural fats from the skin because it's not soap.
It's the SOAP made from the coconut oil that is stripping and harsh to the skin. The soap is what can emulsify and remove natural skin fats.
It's the SOAP made from the coconut oil that is stripping and harsh to the skin. The soap is what can emulsify and remove natural skin fats.
DianaMoon
Well-Known Member
And how this happens is what I need to understand. I have to read your pages & Prof. Dunn's book again. I'm sure the answer is in there.
(Side but important point about emulsification: I've never liked the word "trace" - to me it's a meaningless jargon term and sometimes it doesn't apply. Emulsification can look different depending on your oils. Remembering that saved me angst recently. I mixed a batter that didn't come to trace. At all. Very thin batter. But I remembered something I read here (paraphrasing): stick blending to the point of burning out your unit is useless & unnecessary. This is a chemical process. If the lye & oils are emulsified you're OK. I stick-blended a bit, and then whisked a bit. Yep, it was emulsified. After that, it turned to pudding quite quickly.)
