Acceleration and almond oil

[Todd Ziegler]

Lard, Pig Tallow (Manteca) 19.43%;
Coconut Oil, 76 deg 14.25%;
Walmart GV Shortening, tallow, palm 14.25%;
Almond Oil, sweet 7.13%;
Palm Oil 6.48%;
Castor Oil 3.24%;
Sodium Lactate 2.27%;
Titanium dioxide
8th & ocean FO

Has anyone ever experienced acceleration using almond oil?
I ran out of HO safflower oil and used almond oil instead because that is all I had. I was also running short on lard, so I used the shortening. However I have used this recipe and FO before and never had it accelerate and the only difference is the almond oil but i have a hard time believing that the almond oil is the cause. Yet the evidence says that it is the cause because this isn't the first time that it has happened. I have had it happen when using no shortening and all lard. I am using an almond oil from Walmart and it was the only common denominator in the recipes.

Any thoughts?

 

[violets2217]

Lard, Pig Tallow (Manteca) 19.43%;
Coconut Oil, 76 deg 14.25%;
Walmart GV Shortening, tallow, palm 14.25%;
Almond Oil, sweet 7.13%;
Palm Oil 6.48%;
Castor Oil 3.24%;
Sodium Lactate 2.27%;
Titanium dioxide
8th & ocean FO

Has anyone ever experienced acceleration using almond oil?
I ran out of HO safflower oil and used almond oil instead because that is all I had. I was also running short on lard, so I used the shortening. However I have used this recipe and FO before and never had it accelerate and the only difference is the almond oil but i have a hard time believing that the almond oil is the cause. Yet the evidence says that it is the cause because this isn't the first time that it has happened. I have had it happen when using no shortening and all lard. I am using an almond oil from Walmart and it was the only common denominator in the recipes.

Any thoughts?

Hmmm... I’ve been using a 30% lard, 20% CO, Olive and Canola oil and just 5% Sweet Almond Oil and Castor. It accelerates slightly every time. I’ve been soaping at 35% lye concentration which I thought was supposed to help with a longer more fluid batter. Maybe I’ll try replacing the almond oil. Something to think about. Hope you get your answers !

 

[AliOop]

@Todd Ziegler I haven't experienced acceleration with SAO, but my recipe uses a lot more lard, a little more SAO, no palm or shortening, and a bit more of both CO and castor. So I fear it is not a fair comparison. Regardless of recipe, my batter does thicken pretty fast once I add TD.

@violets2217 not everyone finds that higher lye concentrations help with fluidity. I'm guessing that the response to the higher lye concentration is probably recipe-dependent. My recipe is higher in lard and much lower in soft oils than yours, and often contains a bit of shea, as well. For me, with my usual recipe, the sweet spot seems to be 40% lye concentration, where the batter slows way down, even with extra stick-blending.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...the sweet spot seems to be 40% lye concentration, where the batter slows way down ..."

This ^^^. A lye concentration of 35% isn't high enough to see this phenomenon. You have to set the lye concentration quite a bit higher -- at least 40% in my experience.

And it doesn't always happen, especially if you use additives, such as FOs or EOs, that cause any acceleration. Higher lye conc's and any accelerating ingredients aren't a good mix.

 

[AliOop]

@DeeAnna Thanks for that additional info, which confirms my experience. My batter starts slowing down at 38%, but the big change happens at 40%. I haven't tried 50% but have a feeling that would go the other direction.

 

[violets2217]

So more lard less soft oils, well behaving FO or EO and no more kaolin clay... and bite the bullet and raise my lye concentration to 40%... Lol it’s a goal, at least! Always a work in progress!

 

[AliOop]

@violets2217 I'd change one thing at a time and see how it goes. Maybe try the 40% lye concentration in a small batch with your regular recipe, without changing other things. I don't have any problems when I add kaolin clay to my recipe with the 40% lye concentration.

ETA:
@Todd Ziegler I wonder if their almond oil is adulterated with something that may be causing acceleration?

 

[cmzaha]

"...the sweet spot seems to be 40% lye concentration, where the batter slows way down ..."
This amazes me that so many find this to be true because I tried it many times and it proved, in my opinion, to be strictly recipe dependent not working at all in my go-to recipes.

I do not find that SAO accelerates and it still took quite a long time to reach trace when I tested it as a single oil soap.

 

[AliOop]

Carolyn, I've heard others say that, too, so I really agree with you that it is probably recipe-dependent.

I don't vary my recipes that much, and most of them are at least 60% lard (which I know doesn't work for you). Probably I just got lucky that the 40% concentration does work so well with my go-to formula.

 

[DeeAnna]

You can't automatically assume a 40% lye concentration WILL result in a slower moving soap batter. It MAY result in that ... but you just have to try it and see for any given recipe.

I have experienced this phenomenon, so I know it happens, but it's not something that has greatly affected my soap-making habits. My preference is 33% lye conc if for no other reason than I like to use beer (or other alternative water-based liquids) to make soap. I can use more beer if my lye conc is 33% rather than 40%.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

@violets2217 I'd change one thing at a time and see how it goes. Maybe try the 40% lye concentration in a small batch with your regular recipe, without changing other things. I don't have any problems when I add kaolin clay to my recipe with the 40% lye concentration.

ETA:
@Todd Ziegler I wonder if their almond oil is adulterated with something that may be causing acceleration?

I was wondering the same thing but it doesn't list anything other than almond oil. Which doesn't mean that there isn't anything else in it. It doesn't matter which FO I use either.

I guess I will have to do a better job of ordering so I don't run out of safflower.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

"...the sweet spot seems to be 40% lye concentration, where the batter slows way down ..."
This amazes me that so many find this to be true because I tried it many times and it proved, in my opinion, to be strictly recipe dependent not working at all in my go-to recipes.

I do not find that SAO accelerates and it still took quite a long time to reach trace when I tested it as a single oil soap.

I believe that it may be this particular brand of almond oil because I have used other brands and never had a problem like this. However I wanted to check and see other people's experiences because the best knowledge is when you can admit that you don't know the answer.

 

[AliOop]

I believe that it may be this particular brand of almond oil because I have used other brands and never had a problem like this. However I wanted to check and see other people's experiences because the best knowledge is when you can admit that you don't know the answer.

That's what makes me think your brand might be adulterated. With the olive oil adulteration scandal, everyone thought they were buying pure olive oil, but it turned out to be mixed with other stuff, and not labeled as such. Same with EOs that are sold as pure but aren't. Maybe I'm too cynical but that's where my brain goes first.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Lard, Pig Tallow (Manteca) 19.43%;
Coconut Oil, 76 deg 14.25%;
Walmart GV Shortening, tallow, palm 14.25%;
Almond Oil, sweet 7.13%;
Palm Oil 6.48%;
Castor Oil 3.24%;
Sodium Lactate 2.27%;
Titanium dioxide
8th & ocean FO

Has anyone ever experienced acceleration using almond oil?
I ran out of HO safflower oil and used almond oil instead because that is all I had. I was also running short on lard, so I used the shortening. However I have used this recipe and FO before and never had it accelerate and the only difference is the almond oil but i have a hard time believing that the almond oil is the cause. Yet the evidence says that it is the cause because this isn't the first time that it has happened. I have had it happen when using no shortening and all lard. I am using an almond oil from Walmart and it was the only common denominator in the recipes.

Any thoughts?

I just used 8th and Ocean today for the first time and I experienced acceleration and I think some ricing with it. I’ve been doing some poking around on the forum regarding this FO and have found a few posts where other people have had acceleration issues with it as well. Could be a part of the culprit in your experience too. Just wanted to let you know.
ETA...and like you, I don’t use much soft oil in my recipe. Usually only 15% plus 5% castor. This could be what makes the difference.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I just used 8th and Ocean today for the first time and I experienced acceleration and I think some ricing with it. I’ve been doing some poking around on the forum regarding this FO and have found a few posts where other people have had acceleration issues with it as well. Could be a part of the culprit in your experience too. Just wanted to let you know.
ETA...and like you, I don’t use much soft oil in my recipe. Usually only 15% plus 5% castor. This could be what makes the difference.

It’s really weird because it only happened when I used the 8th & ocean with almond oil and no other time m.

 

[dibbles]

I haven't used 8th & Ocean for a long time, but as I recall it did accelerate slightly. I know I used it in a layered design for that reason. It isn't the type of acceleration that starts immediately. It stays fluid enough for a fair amount of working time and gradually thickens, but thickens more quickly than a FO that doesn't accelerate at all. I consider these types of FOs to be moderately accelerating.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

That's what makes me think your brand might be adulterated. With the olive oil adulteration scandal, everyone thought they were buying pure olive oil, but it turned out to be mixed with other stuff, and not labeled as such. Same with EOs that are sold as pure but aren't. Maybe I'm too cynical but that's where my brain goes first.

Agree'