A question for all you bee keeper people :)

[My Mountain Soaps]

hi all,
a local bee keeper sells his honey to the general public. I LOVE his system, in that it is a complete honor system. I have never met the man, or a person for that matter when going to his land, stepping into his little 10x10 store, and buying honey. I slide my cash through the slot in the other door, and grab the honey i want.
Anyway, i went to get some honey around Christmas time, and just as a figured, he was out. But what he did have was un-heated honey. what is that? what can it be used for?

 

[QueenBeeSoap]

Unheated honey is simply raw honey that has not been pasteurised. Because it isn't heated, the naturally occurring enzymes and all the good stuff in the honey remain undamaged, and the taste is unbelievable - once you've tasted raw honey, you won't want to go back to store bought! You can use raw honey any way you would use regular honey - I use mine in tea and coffee, on toast, in baking, etc. I also use small quantities of my raw honey in soap and bath products.

Pasteurised honey, on the other hand, has been heated and rapidly cooled to prevent fermentation in high moisture content honey, make it more uniform in consistency and easier to pour, slow down the rate at which the honey crystalizes, and generally make a product that is more appealing looking to consumers on the shelf. Commercial honey that you find at the grocery store (eg. Billy Bee honey in Canada) has been pasteurised.

 

[My Mountain Soaps]

OK, thank you for the answer. Makes me want to go get some right now! Its sold for 35$ I think for two or three gallons. Or something similar to that size. So does this raw honey crystalize fast? How do I prevent or fix it if it does? In the small bottles I get from him I just double broil them.

 

[QueenBeeSoap]

Raw honey does tend to crystalize more quickly, but it varies from batch to batch since the bees forage from different sources. If it's crystalized, it doesn't mean that it has gone bad; it's still perfectly good to eat or use for other purposes and it can be stored indefinitely. Keep it out of direct sunlight and store it at room temperature in a sealed container. To restore it to its previous consistency if it's crystalized, you can try gently heating it by putting the container of honey in a hot water bath and stirring. Just remember that if you want to maintain the health benefits of raw honey, you want to heat it as little as possible.

For soapmaking purposes, I've used raw honey (whether crystalized or not) by dissolving it with the oils before adding the lye water.

Enjoy!

 

[Soaplily]

What a wonderful trusting way to live life. Kudos for supporting your local bee keeper!

 

[SoapMakingTommy]

Oo i love bees, and honey, I have been wanting to buy a beehive kit for the past 3 years, maybe this year ill get around to it, i should place my order for my bees sometime early before spring comes. And kudos to you too for raising bees.
Are you sure she said un-heated and no un-refined?
I would think she means still in the honeycomb maybe.

 

[engblom]

OK, thank you for the answer. Makes me want to go get some right now! Its sold for 35$ I think for two or three gallons. Or something similar to that size. So does this raw honey crystalize fast? How do I prevent or fix it if it does? In the small bottles I get from him I just double broil them.

Stir it daily until it is almost not possible to pour it. When you have reached this state, it will always remain soft enough for taking it with a spoon. The taste will still be good. This kind of honey is not having any practical upper limit for how long it could get stored. I think it is more than decenium since my parents quit having bee hives. They still have honey left and it is all good.

If you do not stir it enough, it will become hard as a brick and you will have very much difficulties to get honey out of your jar. Unstired honey becomes a complete yuky brick with a different taste than what the raw honey had.

 

[neeners]

oh my. that raw honey sounds divine!! you should absolutely get some. I love raw honey. haven't used it in soap, but I've been eating raw honey for years and it's just amazing. great for scrapes and burns too.

side note - if you're allergic to some type of pollen, apparently if you ingest raw honey that is from said pollen, eventually you won't get allergic reactions anymore. I've never tried it myself, but I heard it works. also same goes with raw goats milk...

 

[Miz Jenny]

My local source for honey and beeswax is an ecological beekeeper. Both are raw and the wax is unfiltered. It's wonderful. I take a spoon of honey everyday to help my allergies.

 

[CCa1892]

OK, thank you for the answer. Makes me want to go get some right now! Its sold for 35$ I think for two or three gallons. Or something similar to that size. So does this raw honey crystalize fast? How do I prevent or fix it if it does? In the small bottles I get from him I just double broil them.

Oh my, run, run run...this is a great price and opportunity. If you can possibly meet the gentleman one day and perhaps arrange a soap barter
-all the better!

Years ago a man stopped by our property and asked if he could set out bee boxes because we had so many locust trees growing. At harvest time he gave us 80lbs of raw honey. That honey was the best I've tasted past or present. The honey ...for lack of a better word, buzzed in my mouth with unbelievable flavor and sensation. I was planning our tiny Christmas wedding at the time and decided to use some of the honey as favors. I bought little round jelly jars and ran them in the dishwasher. Took them out and let them cool down to warm to touch temperature (because I didn't want to change the integrity of the honey). I filled each jar with honey, topped with a couple dozen raw almonds then capped. I have never canned anything, but within a hour those jars began to pop-They sealed! That was 14 years ago, and my two remaining jars began to crystallize a few years ago. Different, not dense and just at the bottom with clear honey at the top. The jars were tastefully (no pun intended) decorated, the theme: "Love is sweeter the second time around."
Have fun with your new find-you can preserve it. My little jars are kept in a bookcase with my flowers,away from cold drafts. I think it helped to slow down crystallization. Enjoy!

 

[Miz Jenny]

Honey is the only food that NEVER goes bad.

 

[Marley]

Honey as a preservative?

Am I being overly critical, or is there something missing here...I went to a craft show last week and out of perplexing curiosity purchased a "Skin Healing Cream" (a Miracle of Nature, the label implies) from a company http://www.honeybeez.com - The Link Group Inc, Orlando, Florida.

The ingredients on the label are in this order: Pure Honey, Aloe Vera Gel, Safflower Oil, Purified Water, Royal Bee Jelly, Vitamin E (Tocopheryl Acetate), Vitamin A (Retinyl Palmitate), Pro-Vitamin B Ginseng, Native American Herbal Mixture. (INCI labeling?)

As soon as I saw that the labeled ingredients included not only purified water but also Royal Bee Jelly (which is about 60-70% water), and not seeing a preservative listed among the ingredients, I asked why they had not used a preservative to avoid bacterial or fungal growth. To be honest, I was waiting for him to tell me that the Vitamin E was a preservative, which would have prompted me to clarify the difference between preservatives and antioxidants.

To my surprise, however, the vendor emphatically stated that "honey is a natural preservative. This cream doesn't require any other preservative."

An article written by Indiana Public Media's Moment of Science states, "...because of its high sugar concentration, pure honey will never ferment or go bad. Adding water, however, lowers the concentration of sugar in the honey and turns a natural preservative into an excellent food for yeast and bacteria." http://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/honey-food-yeast-natural-preservative/

Another article linked here: https://suite101.com/a/honey-as-a-natural-preservative-a62853 "While there is evidence to suggest it can safely be used to preserve products, there is also some conflicting evidence to suggest that it may not be as effective as originally thought. Once again, as with all natural preservatives, it is important to observe any unusual changes or odours that occur within your product, rather than relying exclusively on the preserving properties of honey."

I asked the vendor, "How long will this cream last without going bad?"
He replied, "You could keep this for 3 years or more without any problems."

Let me describe the appearance of this Honey Bee Skin Healing Cream...this "Miracle of Nature". It is as pure as the white driven snow. Not a visible trace of any "additional" Native American herb (aloe is already labeled separately), and this cream is fully emulsified...no honey trails, no separation. It looks like any "cream or lotion base" that you can purchase from a supplier. Still pressing the issue of water content, I asked whether the "Native American Herbal Mixture" was infused in the purified water or the Safflower Oil? He replied, "What do you mean by infused?" I replied, "How is the herbal mixture incorporated into the cream? I notice you do not include any essential oils." He said, "I don't know what you mean," and then he dismissed me in favor of greeting another customer, but I overheard him telling a customer that the Native Americans used Chamomile and Lavender as healing herbs.

If you'll indulge me a little while longer, allow me to share the information on the "Fact Sheet" that accompanies the product:
1) Solves Dry Skin Problems - Soothes, Conditions and Hydrates Rough, Dry Skin.
2) Helps Heal Skin Ailments - A unique combination of ALL NATURAL ingredients designed to help promote healing.
3) One Skin Cream that does it all - A face moisturizer and complete body cream.
4) Natural Hydrator and Wrinkle Reducer - Helps restore the delicate moisture balance and skin elasticity.
5) Native American Formula - Made with pure honey, Royal Bee Jelly, Aloe and more.
6) NO added perfumes, chemicals or alcohols.
7) Made in the USA - This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

So, to return to my opening question, I ask you to please let me know if I'm being overly critical in my increasing concerns regarding his ingredients, his labeling of all ingredients and perhaps ingredients not labeled, and the "Miracle" claims he makes? I am very skeptical. He came off as sounding like some snake oil salesman.

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

Marley

 

[Nevada]

"Leave the Money & Take the Honey" Self Service.
"Honey Corner" 5 miles north of lake Benton, Minn.
Owner told me over 25 years NEVER has any honey been stolen.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

..................He came off as sounding like some snake oil salesman.

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

Marley

That's how it sounded to me, with the list of benefits - especially "One Skin Cream that does it all - A face moisturizer and complete body cream." I can picture him stood on the back of his wagon pointing at the townsfolk saying "You, sir, looks like you have rough skin. Farmer, are you? Well, this cream will fix you up right and proper"

Anyone who lists "no harmful chemicals" is a bit silly in my book. He lists the Royal Bee Jelly as being the only natural source of pure acetyl choline - but that is actually a neurotransmitter produced by our bodies. He also lists niacin which in overdose (1.5g + a day) can cause some serious skin issues. It's not likely that you'd use that much, but it's a far cry from how it's being sold.

I don't know about the honey, but just the fact that there he was a bit cagey with information smells bad. Is it infused?

 

[grayceworks]

It was a white cream? Where is the emulsifier? What makes the oil blend into the other ingredients to form a nice white cream? Those listed ingredients, to my knowledge, will not emulsify on their own... they generally need an e-wax

 

[QueenBeeSoap]

Oo i love bees, and honey, I have been wanting to buy a beehive kit for the past 3 years, maybe this year ill get around to it, i should place my order for my bees sometime early before spring comes. And kudos to you too for raising bees.
Are you sure she said un-heated and no un-refined?
I would think she means still in the honeycomb maybe.

"Unrefined," "unheated," and "raw" could all be describing the same type of honey. Honey sold that is still in the honeycomb is called "comb honey" and is usually much more expensive and specially packaged. Good luck in getting started with beekeeping! My best advice is to take a beekeeping course to learn hands-on from a local beekeeper, and read, read, read, then read some more!

Stir it daily until it is almost not possible to pour it. When you have reached this state, it will always remain soft enough for taking it with a spoon. The taste will still be good. This kind of honey is not having any practical upper limit for how long it could get stored. I think it is more than decenium since my parents quit having bee hives. They still have honey left and it is all good.

If you do not stir it enough, it will become hard as a brick and you will have very much difficulties to get honey out of your jar. Unstired honey becomes a complete yuky brick with a different taste than what the raw honey had.

Unstirred honey should not change in taste even if it changes in texture. It sounds like you would like the consistency of creamed honey. It has a silky smooth texture, is easily spreadable, and will not crystalize like regular honey (technically it's already crystalized, but the crystals are much smaller and rounder). You can buy some from your local beekeeper to use as a starter to make your own. Stir in a tablespoonful or more to a jar of clear liquid honey, and the honey will mimic the small crystal structure of the creamed honey.

As soon as I saw that the labeled ingredients included not only purified water but also Royal Bee Jelly (which is about 60-70% water), and not seeing a preservative listed among the ingredients, I asked why they had not used a preservative to avoid bacterial or fungal growth. To be honest, I was waiting for him to tell me that the Vitamin E was a preservative, which would have prompted me to clarify the difference between preservatives and antioxidants.

To my surprise, however, the vendor emphatically stated that "honey is a natural preservative. This cream doesn't require any other preservative."

I'm not a lotion making expert, but it sounds like the seller has no idea what he's doing! It's true that honey will preserve itself indefinitely, but all bets are off once other substances are mixed in. When honey mixes with water and sits over time, it attracts yeast and bacteria and begins to ferment (this is similar to how mead is made: honey + water + yeast = mead). It sounds like he's putting things on the label to appeal to the average consumer who has no knowledge of how the product is actually made, just like sellers who make soap but say that it isn't made with lye to make it appear more "natural." Are they just ignorant, or are they flat out trying to deceive people? :-x

 

[DeeAnna]

Honey that contains more than about 18% water will get moldy, so the use of honey as a preservative is pretty much true only when the water content of the honey is low enough. I'd be doubtful about the cream described above -- I suspect it probably has more water than 18%, what with the aloe and water in the ingredients list. I'm also doubtful that it's properly preserved or emulsified, but, hey, I'm also doubtful about eating homemade mayo that's over a week old. Maybe some people have a higher risk tolerance than I do.

FWIW, some folks get away with making a cream/lotion with no emulsifier -- they beat the h*ck out of the mixture when making it and keep the product fairly cool after it's been packaged. But get it too warm, and the emulsion will easily break, since there's no chemical emulsifier to stabilize the product.

 

[SoapMakingTommy]

Just a question about honey since we are on the topic and it as a preservative.
Hearing about water content and emulsification im wondering if dehydrated honey has the same properties and how well it would be if reconstituted back to hydration?

 

[marghewitt]

My side yard yesterday. My husband used my laser thermal thermometer to check that the bees were still alive. It worked and he figured out where in the hive the ball of bees were. They form a ball around the queen to keep her warm all winter. Yes I agree that raw honey is amazing! Of course I am biased

 

[neeners]

^^ that would be my bf's dream come true!!!