A lye work-around or a misleading claim?

[Chaiat5]

Hi every buddy,

I wasn’t sure where to post this, so please bear with me. My friend in Singapore is considering taking up a soap making class.

She found a course that, to my knowledge, only taught Melt & Pour Soap techniques. [Really, really gorgeous stuff though!] They told me the last time I asked that they didn’t do CP soap workshops any longer because past students lost motivation — they couldn’t make CP soap at home (lye is a controlled chemical in Singapore).

They told my friend this though:

Cold pressed soap would require a license to create the soap due to the chemicals, however our academy has found a different method to create Cold pressed soap at home without restrictions and you'll be able to find out more on the creation process in the course.

It’s all so mysterious… can anyone enlighten me: what is this work-around? How is it CP without lye? Is it a base? Something synthetic? My friend has auto immune and allergy issues and is a little hesitant to sign up as the class is quite pricey. I thought I’d ask you guys since you’re way more experienced.

Thank you!!

 

[ClaudiaO]

Hi Chaiat5,
my guess would be a syndet bar. No lye but made with synthetic detergents.
Just did a quick Google search and found this website.
https://wildravensoap.com/blogs/blog/soap-vs-syndet-shampoo-bars
A lot of people use these for hair (lower ph than soap) but they can also be used instead of soap.

I can't think of anything else it might be.

 

[Chaiat5]

Thank you so much!

Hi Chaiat5,
my guess would be a syndet bar. No lye but made with synthetic detergents.
Just did a quick Google search and found this website.
https://wildravensoap.com/blogs/blog/soap-vs-syndet-shampoo-bars
A lot of people use these for hair (lower ph than soap) but they can also be used instead of soap.

I can't think of anything else it might be.

Right? I was so stumped! Thank you so much for responding

 

[AliOop]

Anyone who calls it "cold-pressed" instead of "cold PROCESSED" is already suspect in my book.

That pickiness aside, my guess is that they work with an M&P base, but it certainly could be syndets, as @ClaudiaO suggested. Those can be considered cold-processed since you simply melt and mix the ingredients, then pour into molds.

There are some YT videos and at least one training available from HSCG about how to make soap with baking soda instead of NaOH. I haven't tried it myself, but my understanding is that it does work, but it's a lot more involved.

 

[ClaudiaO]

Here are some examples of syndet bars.
https://www.humblebeeandme.com/how-to-make-shampoo/?

I think your friend needs at least some idea of ingredients used in this class before signing up.
No point spending a lot of money on something they may not be able to use.

Some of these recipes could literally be called cold-pressed since all you do is mix powdery stuff with wet stuff and press into a mold.

 

[DeeAnna]

A way to make actual soap without specifically starting with NaOH is to react washing soda with slaked lime in water. The result of this chemical reaction is an NaOH solution. Some people say this is "making soap without using lye", but that's misleading.

 

[Chaiat5]

Anyone who calls it "cold-pressed" instead of "cold PROCESSED" is already suspect in my book.

That really bugged me too! I think they do use a base and most likely will market it to those who graduate from their class. The sort of decorations they are teaching are quite elaborate (mille feuille and other delicate pastry like soap) that are more of the m&p variety than CP.

I think your friend needs at least some idea of ingredients used in this class before signing up.
No point spending a lot of money on something they may not be able to use.

I agree… she and her family have auto-immune and skin sensitivities and this was why she wanted to learn soap making. I’ll get her to consider cold-process workshops

 

[Chaiat5]

A way to make actual soap without specifically starting with NaOH is to react washing soda with slaked lime in water. The result of this chemical reaction is an NaOH solution. Some people say this is "making soap without using lye", but that's misleading.

Thank you I love it when you jump in with the science!

 

[MelissaG]

Alot of people call it cold pressed. It drives me crazy.

 

[Ekuzo]

At first, when I read what they said to your friend, I was like - they'll probably teach how to make NaOH at home and use that to make soap if you don't have access to it. And then I see AliOop says it's 'PRESSED' and I'm like - oh, well, okay, how did I miss that...

It's either about M&P or syndet bars... or, who knows - maybe some way to shred already made lye-based commercial soap and sort of 'rebatch' it into your 'own' without adding any NaOH? Anyway, it's shady

 

[DeeAnna]

If this teacher is offering insightful and competent instruction about an unusual method of soap making, I have no problem with them selling a paid course. But this person's approach to selling their class is soooo evasive and obscure and that bothers me. I don't know how a prospective student can decide if the class is worthwhile without spending their money first.

That is asking for more of a leap of faith than I think is reasonable or fair. By the time one knows if they've been deceived or if they're getting value for their money, it's too late.

That said, other soap makers also use this tactic when hawking their paid classes. The language they use might be less bombastic than this person's, but they still "promise a lot without saying much of anything".

I don't think a teacher needs to explain all they know about their subject in order to to sell access to their class, but it's a fair thing to expect an honest summary of the class objective and a decent outline of the content to be presented.

 

[paradisi]

If this teacher is offering insightful and competent instruction about an unusual method of soap making, I have no problem with them selling a paid course. But this person's approach to selling their class is soooo evasive and obscure and that bothers me. I don't know how a prospective student can decide if the class is worthwhile without spending their money first.

That is asking for more of a leap of faith than I think is reasonable or fair. By the time one knows if they've been deceived or if they're getting value for their money, it's too late.

That said, other soap makers also use this tactic when hawking their paid classes. The language they use might be less bombastic than this person's, but they still "promise a lot without saying much of anything".

I don't think a teacher needs to explain all they know about their subject in order to to sell access to their class, but it's a fair thing to expect an honest summary of the class objective and a decent outline of the content to be presented.

Agree. Even classes at craft supply stores give a supplies list before signing up.

 

[Chaiat5]

It's either about M&P or syndet bars... or, who knows - maybe some way to shred already made lye-based commercial soap and sort of 'rebatch' it into your 'own' without adding any NaOH? Anyway, it's shady

I agree... I am pretty sure now it is M&P/syndet bars. I do think many people want to learn how to make CP soap but are not aware that you can only use lye in an approved/licensed establishment in Singapore and this is why they word their ads as such.

If this teacher is offering insightful and competent instruction about an unusual method of soap making, I have no problem with them selling a paid course. But this person's approach to selling their class is soooo evasive and obscure and that bothers me. I don't know how a prospective student can decide if the class is worthwhile without spending their money first.

That is asking for more of a leap of faith than I think is reasonable or fair. By the time one knows if they've been deceived or if they're getting value for their money, it's too late.

That said, other soap makers also use this tactic when hawking their paid classes. The language they use might be less bombastic than this person's, but they still "promise a lot without saying much of anything".

I don't think a teacher needs to explain all they know about their subject in order to to sell access to their class, but it's a fair thing to expect an honest summary of the class objective and a decent outline of the content to be presented.

YES! Exactly!! I did tell my friend about the class I took when I was in SG ... cold processed all the way with detailed instruction and notes on ingredients and their benefits etc. The only problem is that it is pricey (and rightly so given the quality of materials and training!) and not government subsidised. This mysterious one is.

Really appreciate the feedback, everyone! I've advised her and hope she'll find the course she needs!