A Cream Soap Tutorial

[LBussy]

I just got pointed to this thread so I have a few questions if you will indulge me?

I don't understand what "super cream" is, or why you use stearic for it. You say it is extremely important but I'm not following why. In the context of superfat I want this for conditioning, however stearic acid/stearin is solid at room temp. Anything you can tell me to help it sink into my thick skull will be appreciated. What makes my shaving soap what it is relates to the fats/butters I use as SF. Looking at this as a way to maybe make a cream shaving soap, that presents an issue.

Second, what the heck is "rot?" I understand what cure is, but not why you would say rot/cure in this context.

Lastly, I'm afraid I don't believe any noticeable chemical reactions happen in a longer cure of KOH-only, SA/CO-based soaps (shaving soaps). I have new tubs and I have some 6+ months old and they both act the same on my face. My face is pretty durned sensitive compared to my hands and shortcomings in process and recipe are easy to highlight. What makes this different?

Thanks in advance for any help or clarification.

 

[dosco]

I'll pile on as well.

Firstly, thank you for that informative post. Good stuff.

The process raises a few questions for me.

1. There is reference to the recipe being "harsh" due to the stearic acid. Why? Is there zero superfat, zero excess lye, and excess acid? (it would be nice to see a soapcalc analysis of the recipe presented in that thread).

2. What's special about adding the stearic and glycerin to the cook after the batch has turned to mashed potatoes? Why couldn't you add everything to the pot at once?

3. Seems like this would be highly applicable to shave soap, which has a high stearic content.

Cheers-
Dave

 

[LBussy]

1. There is reference to the recipe being "harsh" due to the stearic acid. Why? Is there zero superfat, zero excess lye, and excess acid? (it would be nice to see a soapcalc analysis of the recipe presented in that thread).

Well, SoapCalc doesn't do two lye batches but SummerBee does. I've attached the "reverse calc" I did and it comes to 17% superfat. Note that I only to get the lye as close as possible given the proportions stated ... I did not make any effort to separate out things, address process, whatever.

2. What's special about adding the stearic and glycerin to the cook after the batch has turned to mashed potatoes? Why couldn't you add everything to the pot at once?

Glycerin should not make any difference except to the consistency for the process, it does not react.

We've had discussions previously about the "promiscuous ion dance" and if anything the longer this soap sits (cures) the more likely the mixture will reach equilibrium ... the same equilibrium you'd have if you mixed everything at once. That's my hypothesis anyway.

3. Seems like this would be highly applicable to shave soap, which has a high stearic content.

Well that's what caught our eye ... except the ultra high superfat would kill the lather I'm betting.

View attachment Cream Soap - Lindy.pdf

 

[biarine]

I am impress with the cream soap, one day I want to make but them but I am still learning in soap making. I need to start from simple and then to very complicated.

 

[Lindy]

Okay guys let's see if I can clarify.

Supercream is not superfat, they are 2 different beasts. As CP crafters you already understand a SF. Supercream means that by adding additional stearic acid you are creating a thicker cream that is creates a denser lather, like what you are looking for in a good shaving soap. This is also great for doing sugar/salt scrubs and any type of soapy product you like.

Not for the reason of the long rot/cure. Stearic acid is very drying and for whatever reason (not a scientist here, just a mostly humble soapmaker ) a longer cure/rot makes a big difference in the gentleness of the soap. I have been making cream soap for a few years now (since 2010) and by doing my own testing I can tell you that it is true, but as always I recommend checking it out yourself.

Lee as for how my shaving soaps are (not this recipe) check out B&B for Malaspina Soaps.... Nothing but good reviews although my solid shaving soaps can be a little finicky to get that sweet spot for lathering.

 

[Obsidian]

Would it help to add a bit of shea as SF along with the super cream? If so, how much?

 

[LBussy]

Lee as for how my shaving soaps are (not this recipe) check out B&B for Malaspina Soaps.... Nothing but good reviews although my solid shaving soaps can be a little finicky to get that sweet spot for lathering.

Lindy, thanks for sharing and answering my questions.

To be just completely, brutally honest (surprise from me, right? ), I don't trust most of the reviews on B&B. That's not to say I don't believe your soap is great, just that ANYONE can post a review there. You can find fanboys for a lot of "soapers" we know for a fact are just re-branding commercial bases. It's rare for people to take a soapmaker who participates in this small community to task. I'm sure you can think of such a thread there in the last year where an "artisan" soaper was taken to task - physical threats were made to the original reviewer ... bad blood ensued, and so on.

There may as well be an iron curtain between the US and Canada to make it even worse. Shipping soap across the border in small quantities either way is ridiculously expensive. If a shaver in Canada says your soap is great, that person is likely only comparing that to widely imported/exported commercial soaps. I'm betting you think your soap is a WHOLE lot better than those, and among the best artisanal soaps, but how do the shavers know with a limited sample? Likewise I expect US shavers who have used your soaps are rare compared to the distribution of US-made artisanal soaps. Maybe I'm wrong and you have a US distributor?

I need to sit down and re-read this thread and your process because obviously and as Dave (dosco) pointed out, there are some things that are so close to shaving soap that it piques our interest. The only way to know is to try it. "Real Soon Now (TM)" I will give a cream soap a go and see what I can learn from it.

PLEASE accept this in the spirit it was intended ... I'm just a natural skeptic and I over-evaluate everything. I greatly appreciate you sharing this tutorial and I will certainly return to share my thoughts after I try it out.

One last question: What's the smallest batch you think would be effective? There are some physical limits to the "creaming" phase I imagine.

 

[dosco]

Lee:
I'm thinking of making a 1lb batch of 100% KOH shave soap from lard, CO, and stearic to try the "creaming" process ... only problem is that my schedule is pretty full for the next week so I'm not sure when I'll get to it. Sigh.

I am worried about such a high SF ... is the point of the creamed soap to simply put it on the face and shave it off (like canned goo)? Or is the user supposed to make lather with it using "the normal process?"

Cheers-
Dave

 

[LBussy]

I'm wondering the same myself ... I may check on B&B to see if someone has tub in the US and they'd be willing to share so I can experience it as Lindy intended to have it experienced as a shave soap.

 

[Lindy]

Cream Shaving Soap is meant to be loaded on a brush in the same manner as you would any other shave soap. You need to reduce your superfat for a shaving soap, but to where is up to you. Play with it. Here is a picture of the brush using my shaving soap recipe, which again, is not this recipe.

 

[LBussy]

Lee:
I'm thinking of making a 1lb batch of 100% KOH shave soap from lard, CO, and stearic to try the "creaming" process ... only problem is that my schedule is pretty full for the next week so I'm not sure when I'll get to it. Sigh.

I have about 3 more weeks before I'll have time on the weekends. So many things I want to try! I will try this recipe as a cream soap "primer", then expand from there.

Here is a picture of the brush using my shaving soap recipe, which again, is not this recipe.

I get it ... "Pictures may not represent actual product, do not take internally, discontinue if bleeding of the eyes or ears starts, does not prevent halitosis, your mileage may vary."

I just intend to start with this recipe so I can use it as an example. So ... how do you package/dispense THIS recipe?

 

[Lindy]

It goes into 4 ounce jars. But I do have some tubes that I am going to play with; the biggest challenge there is labeling.

 

[LBussy]

It goes into 4 ounce jars. But I do have some tubes that I am going to play with; the biggest challenge there is labeling.

I thought the challenge there would be stuffing it all in that little hole!

 

[Lindy]

Hah no - it will be the getting a label to stick!

 

[kchaystack]

I would imagine one of those flavor injectors that the BBQ pit masters all use to get butter and oil into a pork butt would make it much easier?

I thought the challenge there would be stuffing it all in that little hole!

 

[Lindy]

Actually I have a manual filling machine like THIS and it works really well to fill tubes as well as bottles and jars.

 

[LBussy]

I would imagine one of those flavor injectors that the BBQ pit masters all use to get butter and oil into a pork butt would make it much easier?

Sorry, was a poor joke. Metal tubes are often filled from the large end and then crimped shut. Now that I think about it I'm not actually sure how the plastic ones are done but ... anyway.

 

[kchaystack]

I am sure much the same way. But I was not entirely serious in my reply.

Sorry, was a poor joke. Metal tubes are often filled from the large end and then crimped shut. Now that I think about it I'm not actually sure how the plastic ones are done but ... anyway.

 

[Lindy]

The plastic ones are filled at the end where the cap is.

 

[kharmon320]

Thanks for the tutorial Lindy!