2nd in the pot swirl attempt

[justsomeguy]

High oleic sunflower oil, faux seawater (a la ZNCS), sorbitol, sodium gluconate, ZCS, dragons blood (WSP) fragrance oil. Red/pink from Himalayan rhubarb infusion, purple from Alkanet root infusion. My take on what dragons blood would look like (didn't have any black). Poured at a very light trace (barely coats the back of a spoon stage) and soaped really really cool.

The top is really chalky. It kinda gel'ed in the middle two columns. 24 hours later it's very hard except for the chalky top.

Edit: I added in the forgotten ZCS and fixed the ZNCS spelling

 

[artemis]

dragons blood (WSP) fragrance oil. Red/pink from Himalayan rhubarb infusion, purple from Alkanet root infusion.

So...
Dragon's Blood...
Did you already know that it's going to discolor to brown?

 

[justsomeguy]

So...
Dragon's Blood...
Did you already know that it's going to discolor to brown?

Yes!
I included some ZCS that I forgot to list above

 

[artemis]

Yes!
I included some ZCS that I forgot to list above

Whew! That was close!

 

[AliOop]

@justsomeguy you are making lots of soap! Sounds like it's been a fun ride with all of these experiments.

One thing to consider is how many different salts you are adding to your recipe. Too much salt can do funky things to your soap, including making it chalky (although my guess is that the chalkiness in this batch was due at least in part to pouring before you reached a stable emulsion).

Your recipe for this soap has salt in the faux sea water, the sodium gluconate and the sodium lactate. I believe, but can't swear, that the VCS also contains salts. Personally, I'd eliminate the sodium lactate - you have enough salt with the faux sea water to help harden the bar.

 

[justsomeguy]

@justsomeguy you are making lots of soap! Sounds like it's been a fun ride with all of these experiments.

Yeah. It's been a blast.

One thing to consider is how many different salts you are adding to your recipe. Too much salt can do funky things to your soap, including making it chalky (although my guess is that the chalkiness in this batch was due at least in part to pouring before you reached a stable emulsion).

Your recipe for this soap has salt in the faux sea water, the sodium gluconate and the sodium lactate. I believe, but can't swear, that the VCS also contains salts. Personally, I'd eliminate the sodium lactate - you have enough salt with the faux sea water to help harden the bar.

There's no sodium citrate though

I realized that there's to much stuff in there when it took forever for everything to dissolve. And the is some discoloration in the soap probably from the fragrance.

I'm watching closely to see how this goes. It's a very slimy soap so far

 

[Ephemerella]

Poured at a very light trace (barely coats the back of a spoon stage) and soaped really really cool.

So, this might be your issue, however I notice your most recent note about it being slimey, so maybe not.

I had this exact issue for the first time just a few weeks ago. I made about 8 batches in one evening, all came out great, the very last one developed this thick layer of chalk on top. It was the coldest I had ever soaped, about 85°F. My recipe has a not-insignificant amount of cocoa butter in it, and you can clearly see glycerine rivers in my soap (which is by design), so I'm thinking my soap got a little warm, maybe too fast being it was so cool, and I got a combo of cocoa bloom & ash that materialized as a thick 1/16" thick layer of chalk on top. Mine's still curing so I haven't given it the lather test yet.

 

[justsomeguy]

So, this might be your issue, however I notice your most recent note about it being slimey, so maybe not.

I had this exact issue for the first time just a few weeks ago. I made about 8 batches in one evening, all came out great, the very last one developed this thick layer of chalk on top. It was the coldest I had ever soaped, about 85°F. My recipe has a not-insignificant amount of cocoa butter in it, and you can clearly see glycerine rivers in my soap (which is by design), so I'm thinking my soap got a little warm, maybe too fast being it was so cool, and I got a combo of cocoa bloom & ash that materialized as a thick 1/16" thick layer of chalk on top. Mine's still curing so I haven't given it the lather test yet.

It's not as bad as the second picture, but yeah. I soaped around 78°. And the chalk looks kinda like that 2nd picture. Only colored

 

[justsomeguy]

I tried cutting one of the ungel'd bars into 4 strips for weekly testing and the strips crumbled. I think the whole batch is lost and best thrown out. Ah well, learned an expensive lesson about sugar and salt and soap.

On the positive side, the ZCS is keeping the brown away

 

[basti]

I tried cutting one of the ungel'd bars into 4 strips for weekly testing and the strips crumbled. I think the whole batch is lost and best thrown out. Ah well, learned an expensive lesson about sugar and salt and soap.

On the positive side, the ZCS is keeping the brown away

Now hold on a second. Take a step back and pull that soap out of the bin!

Yes, crumbling sometimes means a batch is lye heavy. But crumbling can also happen when a soap is made with salt and you're cutting it too late.

Salt hardens a soap faster than a non-salty recipe does. When a hardened bar of soap meets a knife, excessive pressure is put on the soap and it crumbles instead of cutting nicely. If your soap is not lye heavy, then this is what is happening. Your soap has likely hardened too much in the past few days and is unable to be cut any further.

Here's a soap I made when I was starting out that became a big crumbly mess:

I waited too long to cut this salty soap (left) and it hardened too much for me to even cut bars. I managed to get two semi-decent bars out of it (see bottom right) that had a rock-like surface and the rest I grated and made into a ciaglia soap (right). Even though the two semi-decent bars were a mess, the soap was fully functional and I quite liked them when I used them.

 

[Zuleika]

Now hold on a second. Take a step back and pull that soap out of the bin!

Agree! Crumbly soap is still your hard work. I tend to chuck all the not so nice pieces into a cotton soap bag and just use it. Specifically, the cotton soap bag since I can barely see the soap through it, I don't think about it aesthetics.

I've only ever tossed out soap due to mouldy dried lemon.

 

[justsomeguy]

Now hold on a second. Take a step back and pull that soap out of the bin!

Oh, it's not binned yet. I'll let it cure to learn the entire lesson

Yes, crumbling sometimes means a batch is lye heavy. But crumbling can also happen when a soap is made with salt and you're cutting it too late.

It's not lye heavy at all. It never zapped after I cut it into bars. The bars that didn't gel just crumble when I attempt to cut them into strips. And I didn't want to touch the gel'd ones until they cure.

Salt hardens a soap faster than a non-salty recipe does. When a hardened bar of soap meets a knife, excessive pressure is put on the soap and it crumbles instead of cutting nicely. If your soap is not lye heavy, then this is what is happening. Your soap has likely hardened too much in the past few days and is unable to be cut any further.

Here's a soap I made when I was starting out that became a big crumbly mess:

View attachment 77988View attachment 77989
I waited too long to cut this salty soap (left) and it hardened too much for me to even cut bars. I managed to get two semi-decent bars out of it (see bottom right) that had a rock-like surface and the rest I grated and made into a ciaglia soap (right). Even though the two semi-decent bars were a mess, the soap was fully functional and I quite liked them when I used them.

Nice save! Maybe I need to learn this lesson now

 

[Tammyfarms]

That’s a lot of soap, since it’s still good soap it could be covered with felt or put in a bag as mentioned by Zuleika and used.

 

[justsomeguy]

That’s a lot of soap, since it’s still good soap it could be covered with felt or put in a bag as mentioned by Zuleika and used.

Yeah, I feel really stupid. I just knew everything was gonna be fine

But, I've got the food processor at the ready to shred it and mix the pieces into the next batch in 4 weeks or so

 

[Tammyfarms]

Yeah, I feel really stupid. I just knew everything was gonna be fine

But, I've got the food processor at the ready to shred it and mix the pieces into the next batch in 4 weeks or so

No need to feel stupid…. Or if you really want to, you are in good company! I think most of us have done that. I know I have! Soaping is so easy and yet so hard!

 

[basti]

But, I've got the food processor at the ready to shred it and mix the pieces into the next batch in 4 weeks or so

I don't think you need to shred your mountain of soaps. The hard bars are perfectly usable as is!

Ciaglia is a valuable soaping technique to learn and you could shred your already crumbled bar up for it, but you really don't need to do it to all of it.

 

[artemis]

And, you don't need to wait for weeks or so for the shreds to cure. They will cure right along with the new soap you add them to.

 

[justsomeguy]

And, you don't need to wait for weeks or so for the shreds to cure. They will cure right along with the new soap you add them to.

I'm gonna try soaping 1.5 pounds of the sunflower again around 95° without the baking soda and sorbitol to see what happens. And I'll try another hanger swirl

 

[justsomeguy]

So I did what I should've done from the start and made a small plain HO sunflower oil soap with sorbitol (1%) added to the oils and faux sea water. Soaped hot (119° batter).

It's shockingly white.

 

[Ephemerella]

Sooooooo lovely!