2nd batch of liquid soap (and future batch help)

[Risaka]

Hi!

Just finished diluting my 2nd batch of liquid soap early last week and distributed a number of bottles to friends and colleagues.

I used the recipe here: Liquid Soap Recipe With Shea Butter - HerbAlcochete , which uses a formulation of:

55% olive oil
30% coconut oil
15% shea butter

I diluted using a 1:3 ratio (with hot 70-80°C as recommended by commentors on my first thread) which worked really well and the paste I used was fully diluted within a day (I diluted in batches of 1000ml). When adding in my lavender EO to the diluted paste at the start (I added 5ml of lavender EO for each batch of 1000ml paste + water), I realized that while the paste was indeed fully diluted after a day, the lavender EO did not mix with the soap, and I think it ended up floating above the diluted soap as a thin layer of EO. Hence, when using the soap in a foaming bottle, the soap still smells unscented. Should I have used a solubizer for this? I just found out about the existence of the fragrance calculator thanks to reading @Zany_in_CO 's comments in another thread, and was wondering if the recommended EO amount given by the calculator would enable the EO to blend with the soap and not float above it.

For my 3rd batch of soap, I want to make it more bubbly and lather better, as I realized that my 2nd batch of soap, while it foams well, feels like it requires a lot of pumps for the soap to cover my body. The lack of bubbles and low lather does contribute to this feeling. I played around with Soap Calc and came up with a recipe of:

40% olive oil
25% castor oil
20% coconut oil
15% cocoa butter

According to the calculator, it does look like it will lather much better and be more bubbly, and also more moisturizing. It will be less cleansing, but that's fine with me. I was thinking of adding in an EO to scent the soap as well, and using the Fragrance Calculator (Fragrance Calculator) , with a 1:3 dilution ratio, how can I be more certain that the EO and EO amount I use will be able to blend well with my soap when diluted?

(Apologies for the really long story to get to this question, I just wanted to share my LS experiences as well as I've been enjoying it and enjoy seeing my friends, colleagues and family enjoy the soap I made for them)

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The lack of bubbles and low lather does contribute to this feeling. I played around with Soap Calc and came up with a recipe of:

When using SoapCalc, those guidelines are designed for hard (NaOH) bars. One of the biggest mistakes that Newbies make is using the same formula for hard bars to make LS and are disappointed with the result.

For formulating Liquid Soap, you can use a higher % of coconut oil than you normally would for hard bars. Coconut Oil is the mainstay of Liquid Soap for lather and a nice viscosity that doesn't require thickening.

Here's a Basic Liquid Soap Making tutorial for you to try:

Alalyna B Blogzpot - How I Create Liquid Soaps & Shampoos

Also check out her other LS Tutorials to learn more.

My advice is to skip the butters for now (more than 2% tends to cloud LS) and do 50% coconut + 50% liquid oils of choice. With that combo, you can dilute the paste with 40% soap and 60% water.

If you don't mind opaque LS, any recipe you find will do.
For clear soaps, use 0% SF; 3:1 Water to Lye Ratio (KOH);

 

[Risaka]

When using SoapCalc, those guidelines are designed for hard (NaOH) bars. One of the biggest mistakes that Newbies make is using the same formula for hard bars to make LS and are disappointed with the result.

For formulating Liquid Soap, you can use a higher % of coconut oil than you normally would for hard bars. Coconut Oil is the mainstay of Liquid Soap for lather and a nice viscosity that doesn't require thickening.

Here's a Basic Liquid Soap Making tutorial for you to try:

Alalyna B Blogzpot - How I Create Liquid Soaps & Shampoos

Also check out her other LS Tutorials to learn more.

My advice is to skip the butters for now (more than 2% tends to cloud LS) and do 50% coconut + 50% liquid oils of choice. With that combo, you can dilute the paste with 40% soap and 60% water.

If you don't mind opaque LS, any recipe you find will do.
For clear soaps, use 0% SF; 3:1 Water to Lye Ratio (KOH);

View attachment 73713

Hi!

My Soap Calc recipe is as shown (apologies for not showing it on my initial post):

I am indeed going for 0% superfat, although that's not to get clear soap per se; I don't mind having opaque/clear/translucent soap, as long as it does what the soap is intended to do according to the hardness/cleansing/conditioning/bubbly/creamy lather and all that (although now that you said it, I just realized that Soap Calc's range is based on "Soap Bar Quality" even if I select KOH as my lye).

Would this recipe work for the intended purposes of being moisturizing, better lather (and/or suds), and having enough cleansing power for a body soap? More importantly, how should I go about using EOs for scent/fragrance? Should I follow the recommendations given on the Fragrance Calculator?

 

[GGMA0317]

You can definitely use the same formulas for bar & LS. I've done it many times and was never disappointed.

I've made identical formulas except for SF % and used the bar to thicken the LS. It was very thick and creamy. So. If anyone wants to use the same formula, do it.

 

[DeeAnna]

Yes, a person can use the same blend of fats for liquid soap as they do for bar soap -- I do this too. But it's good to understand what the ramifications can be for doing that, because blindly adapting a bar soap recipe to make liquid soap can give unexpected results. I've seen it here a number of times where posters have been really unhappy with the LS they've made, and we learn during the discussion that they've adapted a bar soap recipe without really knowing what they're doing.

If a person is wanting a clear liquid soap, most bar soap recipes aren't going to give that result. Clear liquid soap results from a recipe lower in palmitic and stearic acids. These are the fatty acids that improve the longevity in bar soap, so many bar soap recipes have a decent amount of these fatty acids. Also a higher % of castor oil in a LS recipe will help with clarity, but castor is usually used only in small % in bar soap.

Also the use of salts (table salt, sodium lactate), additives such as food purees or other solid materials, pigmented colorants such as oxides and micas, and higher superfat -- all things people use for bar soap -- don't always work well in liquid soap.

 

[GGMA0317]

Yes, a person can use the same blend of fats for liquid soap as they do for bar soap -- I do this too. But it's good to understand what the ramifications can be for doing that, because blindly adapting a bar soap recipe to make liquid soap can give unexpected results. I've seen it here a number of times where posters have been really unhappy with the LS they've made, and we learn during the discussion that they've adapted a bar soap recipe without really knowing what they're doing.

If a person is wanting a clear liquid soap, most bar soap recipes aren't going to give that result. Clear liquid soap results from a recipe lower in palmitic and stearic acids. These are the fatty acids that improve the longevity in bar soap, so many bar soap recipes have a decent amount of these fatty acids. Also a higher % of castor oil in a LS recipe will help with clarity, but castor is usually used only in small % in bar soap.

Also the use of salts (table salt, sodium lactate), additives such as food purees or other solid materials, pigmented colorants such as oxides and micas, and higher superfat -- all things people use for bar soap -- don't always work well in liquid soap.

If you're new to LS or BS you can very easily become discouraged and disappointed based on a few failed attempts. It's not that serious unless you choose to make it so.

Not all bs formulas will create clear LS, but not all LS formulas will either. If clear soap is your goal, then you will learn how to formulate to achieve it. But if a good quality LS is your goal, it doesn't matter if it's clear or not. My point was simply that a very good quality LS can be made from a Bar Soap formula. Hope the OP finds her happy spot

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Hope the OP finds her happy spot

Well said.

I've seen it here a number of times where posters have been really unhappy with the LS they've made, and we learn during the discussion that they've adapted a bar soap recipe without really knowing what they're doing.

So true! Thank you, @DeeAnna, for explaining that's where I was coming from.

Making LS is more than just a matter of subbing KOH for NaOH.

 

[GGMA0317]

Well said.


So true! Thank you, @DeeAnna, for explaining that's where I was coming from.

Making LS is more than just a matter of subbing KOH for NaOH.

It's not for me. And if anyone else would like to try it, they shouldn't be discouraged from doing so because a few newbies lacked the experience needed for a successful outcome.

But I'm cool with allowing this to be added to the growing lists of soaping myths.

I would have never known it was possible if I hadn't tried, but I tried without asking if it were possible.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

It's not for me.

???
Can we at least agree that:

Making LS is more than just a matter of subbing KOH for NaOH.

...or
Are you saying that subbing lyes is all one needs to know about making LS? Is that how you did it the first time you made LS?
Just really curious.

 

[GGMA0317]

???
Can we at least agree that:

...or
Are you saying that subbing lyes is all one needs to know about making LS? Is that how you did it the first time you made LS?
Just really curious.

I'm not going back and forth on this. I shared my experience and I'm 100% certain that you nor anyone else here can change the facts as it pertains to my experience with this subject. Furthermore, I have NO DESIRE to change your opinion or debate it.

ISWIS and I have nothing else (pertaining to ThIS subject) that I care to share with you or anyone else in this thread.

Oh, having someone kind of agree with you on this, doesn't make it any truer than when you stood alone. You might want to do a few tests of your own. Ijs

Moving on....

 

[Zany_in_CO]

@GGMA0317 I'm so sorry you feel that way. I was NOT looking for a debate, just consensus moving forward.

As a matter of fact, I agree that one can create LS from a bar soap formula. Where we seem to disagree is the method (See Post #2):

If you don't mind opaque LS, any recipe you find will do.
For clear soaps, use 0% SF; 3:1 Water to Lye Ratio (KOH);

Your knowledge and experience about LS is invaluable and I hope you continue to advise members as the opportunity arises.