2 Citric Acid questions

[SoapSisters]

I've been using citric acid at 1% in all my soaps to cut down on soap scum. It works really well! I found that solution here at SMF - and my bathtub and I are very grateful!

Question 1: Can I use citric acid in salt bars? My salt bars are usually 50% salt.

Question 2: I recently started using a Zany's No Slime soap I made in January (6 months ago) and it is VERY soft. The recipe:

70% olive oil
15% sunflower HO oil
10% coconut oil
5% castor oil


4% superfat // 37% lye concentration (liquid was distilled water)

1% citric acid (dissolved in water from recipe)
2g baking soda + 3g salt (for the faux salt water)

I added extra lye to account for the citric acid, but not for the baking soda.

This is the first time that I used baking the baking soda/salt solution and citric acid together. Could that be making my soap soft? I know that high OO soap needs a long cure, but I've used other Zany soap at 6 months and it was fine. Any thoughts?

 

[SoapSisters]

It's me again! My more urgent question is my first one:

Can I use citric acid at 1% in salt bars? (My salt bars are usually 50% salt.) Do others use citric acid in salt bars?

Any guidance would be much appreciated!

 

[BattleGnome]

I use citric acid in all my soaps without issue. You should be just fine using it as a chealator

 

[AliOop]

I have never tried it in salt bars, but am not seeing any reason why it wouldn't work.

I also don't know why your soap from Question #2 would be soft, unless somehow the lye was mis-measured. Hopefully someone else can answer that for you. In any event, please do report back with results, and pics!

 

[KiwiMoose]

For your second question - you haven't really followed Zany's recipe so that might be your problem there. 4% superfat is too much, and with the citric acid neutralising some of the lye it would end up being an even higher superfat. It should be 0% superfat.

 

[SoapSisters]

Thanks you all your comments! I appreciate it!

 

[SoapSisters]

For your second question - you haven't really followed Zany's recipe so that might be your problem there. 4% superfat is too much, and with the citric acid neutralising some of the lye it would end up being an even higher superfat. It should be 0% superfat.

I did account for the citric acid by adding more lye, but you have a great point about the SF. I started making Zany's soap when I was new and nervous about 0% SF, and I just kept on doing that. But I do need to revisit that. Thanks!

 

[Megan]

Some people make their castille with a negative superfat even! It cures so long that the excess lye will eventually react with the air. So there's no need to worry about a 0% superfat in castille. I use a 1% superfat in my castille with citric acid, only because I find that after a 2 month cure I am able to use it with a good lather...so I do. I don't use bicarb. in mine though, just citric.

 

[SPowers]

I didn't know about citric acid... have never seen it in a recipe up to this point. I usually make 1000 gr loaves so 20 gr mixed with water from the recipes seems to be what I will need. When is this solution added to the process?

Do I have to adjust the lye quantity because of the CA? Thanks,

 

[Megan]

I didn't know about citric acid... have never seen it in a recipe up to this point. I usually make 1000 gr loaves so 20 gr mixed with water from the recipes seems to be what I will need. When is this solution added to the process?

Do I have to adjust the lye quantity because of the CA? Thanks,

You don't have to, but it is advisable. Otherwise your superfat will be higher than intended. You add the citric acid to your water and dissolve it before adding your lye.

 

[SPowers]

thanks... so can you just reduce the superfat rather than adding to the lye? Is one better than the other. If 2% CA is added do you adjust SF or lye by that %.

 

[AliOop]

thanks... so can you just reduce the superfat rather than adding to the lye? Is one better than the other. If 2% CA is added do you adjust SF or lye by that %.

It is best to adjust the lye specifically for citric acid. There are some good threads on the forum about how to do that.

A caution: Soapmaking Friend will apparently adjust for citric acid, or vinegar, but not both at the same time. So learning the math is best.

 

[SPowers]

thank you, I'll do some research.

 

[SoapSisters]

Some people make their castille with a negative superfat even! It cures so long that the excess lye will eventually react with the air. So there's no need to worry about a 0% superfat in castille. I use a 1% superfat in my castille with citric acid, only because I find that after a 2 month cure I am able to use it with a good lather...so I do. I don't use bicarb. in mine though, just citric.

Thanks for this. I was thinking about which I would use - citric acid or bicarb - if I had to choose one. Do you add the salt that Zany's recipe calls for?

 

[SoapSisters]

thanks... so can you just reduce the superfat rather than adding to the lye? Is one better than the other. If 2% CA is added do you adjust SF or lye by that %.

I agree with @AliOop . I either calculate by hand or use the Soap Making Friend calculator to determine how much extra lye I need due to adding citric acid. You can add it in the "Select Custom Additives" section and choose: Add with the liquid. This way you use the citric acid and still know exactly what your SF is.

 

[KiwiMoose]

@Zany_in_CO’s recipe consists of ‘faux seawater’. To make the faux seawater you need salt and bicarbonate of soda. If you are not using either of these then it’s not really called ‘Zany’s’ and you should probably just call it Castile or Bastille.

 

[SPowers]

I agree with @AliOop . I either calculate by hand or use the Soap Making Friend calculator to determine how much extra lye I need due to adding citric acid. You can add it in the "Select Custom Additives" section and choose: Add with the liquid. This way you use the citric acid and still know exactly what your SF is.

I didn't know this was available on SMF - I will check it out. Thanks,

 

[Megan]

Thanks for this. I was thinking about which I would use - citric acid or bicarb - if I had to choose one. Do you add the salt that Zany's recipe calls for?

I do not use salt either. I like the citric acid by itself, but I've not yet tried the faux seawater approach. I do plan on getting around to it eventually though so I can compare the end result. For using just the citric acid, I can get more lather after two months then a Plain Jane Castille that's been curing for over a year!

 

[SoapSisters]

I do not use salt either. I like the citric acid by itself, but I've not yet tried the faux seawater approach. I do plan on getting around to it eventually though so I can compare the end result. For using just the citric acid, I can get more lather after two months then a Plain Jane Castille that's been curing for over a year!

Interesting! How much citric acid do you use?

 

[Megan]

Interesting! How much citric acid do you use?

2% (PPO)