I Take It All Back!

Lindy · Feb 14, 2014

I take back what I said about preservative in liquid and cream soaps. I opened up a batch of cream soap that is just over a year old to make some scrubs and there was black mold :shock: From now on I will be adding preservative in both as I don't trust the liquid soap either now.

new12soap · Feb 14, 2014

:shock: :sick:

That would be heartbreaking, I'm sorry that happened to you but thanks for sharing. A whole year of curing a cream soap gone, if ever there was a good argument for using a preservative that would be it!

Lindy · Feb 14, 2014

Yup that would be it. I would rather share my failures than hide them because they are a learning opportunity not just for me, but for others too.... :-|

clhigh29 · Feb 14, 2014

I'm still a newbie with cp, but your story reaches even me. I purchased lab colors and learned I had to get a preservative. Killed me to wait another two weeks to get it. Glad now that I did. Thanks for reenforcing the lesson, however, sorry for your loss

craftymom0263 · Feb 15, 2014

What preservative are you adding to your soaps so they don't go bad?

AnnaMarie · Feb 15, 2014

Thank you for sharing! I have not made liquid or cream soap yet but I imagine I will at some point. I am glad to learn from the experience of others although it is a shame about your soap...
Cheers!
Anna Marie

grayceworks · Feb 15, 2014

So sorry to hear about your cream soap.

I haven't made any yet (one of my future projects) but I've been reading a lot on the cream soap yahoo group, and they have some great suggestions for preservatives for it --

I'm on the fence about using it in liquid soap (I currently use it just in case), since so many have provided compelling arguments about the very high ph providing a hostile environment for yucky stuff in liquid soaps, some having liquid soaps years old that test fine.

But I'm not sure how that differs in cream soaps either, since it would seem they have just as high a ph? But the reading I've done so far says they need it, whether due to method or ingredients or whatever the case may be, and your example definitely reinforces that!

It would be interesting to try to identify what kind of mold or bacteria could actually have grown in that medium... Pics?

Seawolfe · Feb 15, 2014

Yes thanks for this. Im not up to liquid soap yet, but Id assumed they didn't need preservative. Thanks for correcting that.

cmzaha · Feb 15, 2014

I have never had a problem not preserving my liquid soap, but yep I have had a problem with cream soap. Fortunetly it was a small amount I seperated out before preserving the balance just to test and see what would happen. Within 6 months the test amount contained mold. I use liquid germall plus in my cream soap

Susie · Feb 15, 2014

I really do use my liquid soap fast enough to not worry. The longest my batch has lasted was 2 months. My large laundry soap recipe was split between my house and 2 others. I will save a bit of it with a date on top and see how long it will last without going bad.

I had heard about cream soaps going bad fast. I don't make them for that very reason. I would rather not use preservatives in my soaps. I am trying to avoid adding any artificial chemicals, if possible.

I am really sorry you had that problem. It would break my heart to open soap I made with TLC, and see that.

cmzaha · Feb 15, 2014

Susie said:
I really do use my liquid soap fast enough to not worry. The longest my batch has lasted was 2 months. My large laundry soap recipe was split between my house and 2 others. I will save a bit of it with a date on top and see how long it will last without going bad.

I had heard about cream soaps going bad fast. I don't make them for that very reason. I would rather not use preservatives in my soaps. I am trying to avoid adding any artificial chemicals, if possible.

I am really sorry you had that problem. It would break my heart to open soap I made with TLC, and see that.

The ickys that can grow can cause more problems than the teeny tiny amount of preservative it takes to make sure they do not grow in our products.

Lindy · Feb 15, 2014

craftymom0263 said:
What preservative are you adding to your soaps so they don't go bad?

Regular soap doesn't need a preservative

grayceworks said:
So sorry to hear about your cream soap.

I haven't made any yet (one of my future projects) but I've been reading a lot on the cream soap yahoo group, and they have some great suggestions for preservatives for it --

I'm on the fence about using it in liquid soap (I currently use it just in case), since so many have provided compelling arguments about the very high ph providing a hostile environment for yucky stuff in liquid soaps, some having liquid soaps years old that test fine.

But I'm not sure how that differs in cream soaps either, since it would seem they have just as high a ph? But the reading I've done so far says they need it, whether due to method or ingredients or whatever the case may be, and your example definitely reinforces that!

It would be interesting to try to identify what kind of mold or bacteria could actually have grown in that medium... Pics?

No pics. I was on the Cream Soap Forum but they annoyed me too much for me to stay. I always pooh poohed the preservative needs before, but I now realize that they were right, not just being overly cautious.

MzMolly65 · Feb 15, 2014

Question from a newbie. Is it just cream soaps that require a preservative or liquid as well? What is it about these soaps that causes the bacteria to grow?

Lindy · Feb 15, 2014

Not a rookie question because last week I would have told you neither require a preservative but after this episode I'm going to say they both need it because liquid soap has even more water in it than cream soap.

Miz Jenny · Feb 15, 2014

Lindy said:
I take back what I said about preservative in liquid and cream soaps. I opened up a batch of cream soap that is just over a year old to make some scrubs and there was black mold :shock: From now on I will be adding preservative in both as I don't trust the liquid soap either now.

Would this also apply to cp made with yogurt/water?

grayceworks · Feb 15, 2014

Lindy said:
Not a rookie question because last week I would have told you neither require a preservative but after this episode I'm going to say they both need it because liquid soap has even more water in it than cream soap.

I wonder if that's all there is to consider though...

for example, this info from one of the testing laboratories says that many cleaners have either a low enough or a high enough PH that they don't require preservatives, as the environment doesn't support microbial growth:

http://www.antimicrobialtestlaboratories.com/Information_About_Preservatives.htm

I have seen others state that liquid soap doesn't need it while cream soap does, so I'm still wondering what other differences would account for that, aside from water content. It is interesting to ponder, and I'd like to find an answer at some point (me and my curiosity! lol)

In the meantime, I err on the safe side.

Lindy · Feb 16, 2014

Miz Jenny said:
Would this also apply to cp made with yogurt/water?

No this only applies to cream and liquid soaps. CP & HP are fine.

grayceworks said:
I wonder if that's all there is to consider though...

for example, this info from one of the testing laboratories says that many cleaners have either a low enough or a high enough PH that they don't require preservatives, as the environment doesn't support microbial growth:

http://www.antimicrobialtestlaboratories.com/Information_About_Preservatives.htm

I have seen others state that liquid soap doesn't need it while cream soap does, so I'm still wondering what other differences would account for that, aside from water content. It is interesting to ponder, and I'd like to find an answer at some point (me and my curiosity! lol)

In the meantime, I err on the safe side.

I can tell you I will be erring on the safe side now too. Even though this is the first batch in over 3 years of making it to develop this problem, I don't want another...

grayceworks · Feb 16, 2014

Lindy said:
I can tell you I will be erring on the safe side now too. Even though this is the first batch in over 3 years of making it to develop this problem, I don't want another...

I wonder what was different in this batch? Do you have other batches from the same time-period? Might be worth the $35 to get a microbial test done and see how they are holding up. It may be a fluke, something atypical that wouldn't normally be a contaminant, since it obviously survives in that PH, and most things don't. I have testing on the brain at the moment, as I'm getting ready to send in a new recipe for testing. lol

Miz Jenny · Feb 16, 2014

Lindy said:
No this only applies to cream and liquid soaps. CP & HP are fine.

Big Whew! I panicked because I have soaps curing made with 35% cream, milk and yogurt! Thanks for the clarification, Lindy.

Susie · Feb 16, 2014

I understand your position, Carolyn. I really do. And I would be right there with you on that except for one tiny detail: I am one of those lucky people that are allergic to the preservative in the contact lens products. This makes me extremely leery to the thought of adding those products(or similar) to soap I am going to use. I know that the preservatives are in tiny amounts in soap, but they are in tiny amounts in contact lens solutions also.

I AM going to downsize my batch amounts, though. No more large batches or making more before the last is used up. Or maybe I will freeze the paste and dilute as needed. Either way, lesson learned. And proper caution will be taken.

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